How to Spot Financial Abuse (And How to Get Out) with Joleen Fuller and Heather Wiese
When we think about abuse, we picture bruises and broken doors. But there is a form of abuse that leaves no marks, traps 99% of survivors, and follows women long after they have left. Almost no one is talking about it, and it might be the biggest reason so many women feel like they can’t get out.
In this episode we sit down with Joleen Fuller and Heather Wiese. Joleen has called Portland home for more than 20 years. A Lewis & Clark College graduate, she has built her career around supporting survivors of domestic violence and trauma serving as an advocate, volunteer, and program coordinator to help individuals find safety, stability, and empowerment. Joleen currently serves as Director of Programs at FinAbility, where she champions survivors and fights for those too often pushed to the margins.
Heather has been in the role of Family Services Advocate for the Shelter Stability Program at Raphael House since September 2020. She currently provides one-one-one advocacy, facilitates multiple support groups, and provides educational workshops for DV survivors and training workshops for fellow advocates. With over 22 years of experience working with families experiencing homelessness, Heather has worked in a wide range of roles including case management, program management, development, volunteer management, crisis intervention, and housing. Her primary passion in her work is economic empowerment and how to navigate complicated emotions surrounding personal finances while building skills and confidence towards financial health.
Why do 99 percent of domestic violence survivors experience financial abuse?
Because financial control is one of the most effective tools of power and control. It is not a side effect of abuse. It is a strategy. Keeping her broke, in debt, and financially dependent is exactly how an abuser makes sure she cannot leave.
What are the three forms of financial abuse?
Financial exploitation is identity theft, coerced debt, and accounts opened in her name without permission. Financial control is withholding her ID, monitoring every transaction, and keeping her on an impossible allowance. Financial sabotage is destroying her credit, her rental history, her job, and manipulating child support and legal systems after she leaves.
Does the financial abuse stop when she leaves?
Often it gets worse. Retaliation is immediate. Accounts get drained, money moves offshore, property gets destroyed. Child support evasion by switching jobs every few months is financial abuse that continues for years. Safety planning is not one and done. It is ongoing.
Why are survivors more afraid to look at their credit report than they were to leave their abuser?
Because the credit report is concrete evidence of everything that was done to them. It is an on-paper reminder every time they try to move forward. And for many survivors, the credit report is also a safety risk because soft pulls from housing or credit applications show their new location to anyone who knows how to look.
What can a survivor do right now if she does not know where to start?
One call. The National Domestic Violence Hotline. You do not need a plan. You just need to ask what resources exist near you. That call leads to the next one. The My Plan app is there for anyone who is not ready to pick up the phone.
What do you need people who are not survivors to understand right now?
The safety net survivors rely on is being cut. Support your local domestic violence shelter. Volunteer, donate, show up. And say it out loud: I believe survivors. In this moment those three words matter more than most people realize.
Wherever you are on your journey, you are not alone, and there is help. Join us for next week’s Money Talks, “Financial Recovery After Abuse: The Step-by-Step Path to Stability”. Leaving is just the beginning. For many survivors, the financial damage lasts years after the relationship ends. This session is about what comes next. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!
Follow & connect with Joleen & Heather:
- finability.org and raphaelhouse.com
- Instagram: @finabilityus and @raphaelhousepdx
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About the Hosts
Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
PS: Joleen & Heather (MP3)
[00:00:00] So I have been on this total deep hole of cults recently, and there’s this podcast called Trust Me, where these two women interview these different people who have been in different cults or have written about cults and how, a cult could be two people, it could be a bunch of people, all these different things.
And in this one episode, this woman was sharing how, to be closer to her savior, she had to, which was coming [00:00:30] through her partner she had to sell everything she owned. She had to give up her job. She had to make sure, she had no money. It all had to go to this
“organization” that was helping others which was really her partner’s pocket full circle. And all I could think about when I was walking and listened to this and I was like, “This is financial abuse.” She was definitely going through verbal abuse. She was going through all these different things, but financial abuse was a big one.
[00:01:00] And It’s so often we see this, financial abuse. And it’s not just in cults, but that was the hole I was in deep diving. And so I was excited to have our two guests on today because I think financial abuse is something that we don’t talk about enough. I think it’s something that people don’t realize that they’re a victim of.
And it’s not about identifying that I am a victim or I’m not a victim, but more of [00:01:30] the fact of we need to stop blaming ourselves so often of how’d I get myself in this situation, how’d this happen to me. I should’ve, shoulda, coulda, woulda. But it’s not all of our fault. We are a victim.
And so we are gonna dive into this episode today. It is gonna be about financial abuse, domestic abuse and technology abuse. So A, trigger warning but B, look around. See what [00:02:00] woman you need to send this to make them more aware. Because as we know, women and money, the sh*t we don’t talk about.
This is sh*t we don’t talk about. There’s a reason why people don’t want us talking about this, and I think this is something we have to be knowledgeable around as other women. We have to be there to support other women in this situation. And women who have gone through this, we need to work on making them feel more comfortable sharing their stories, hearing their stories, and letting them know that their stories are valid.
We’re not [00:02:30] gonna dismiss them. And so with that, let’s get started.
[00:03:00]
Maggie: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Women and Money: The Sh*t We Don’t Talk About. I am so excited to dive into this topic today, which is not always the most exciting topic, but it’s something that needs to be talked about. And every time we’ve done an episode relating to this topic, the feedback that we get, the ahas people get, the realization, I just know it’s something we [00:03:30] need to keep talking about.
Maggie: So with that, Joleen and Heather, before we get into the heavy stuff, let’s start with who you are, what you do, and why you got into this work
Joleen: Awesome. Thank you so much for having us. My name is Joleen. I am a mom. I live in Portland, Oregon. I am also a survivor of domestic violence. I currently work at FinAbility. We are an, a 501[c][3] nonprofit, and we work with survivors of domestic violence and [00:04:00] stalking, and our focus is really on supporting survivors through their financial journeys.
Joleen: We know that 99% of survivors experience financial abuse as part of the abuse they suffer, and so we are lucky enough to get to work with survivors as they take on their financial journeys, deal with the fallout of financial abuse, and get to see them with a lot of wins and a lot of joys as well through a lot of hardship.
Joleen: I never intended to be doing this work. I was [00:04:30] sure that I was gonna be a journalist but I just kept being drawn to this type of work. I volunteered at a shelter in college and then my first job out of college was as an advocate. So I have helped survivors with, a myriad of things that advocates do.
Joleen: So I’ve helped folks find housing, helped folks get restraining orders, attended court hearings really such a gamut of things. And what I really love about the work that I do now, which I kinda said before, but I get to [00:05:00] work with folks as they find a lot of resilience and a lot of strength through a lot of hardship and I get to witness a lot of joy when they reach their financial goals.
Joleen: We also work with a lot of amazing volunteers who support survivors, so that gives me a lot of hope in the world that there’s a lot of people who want to support survivors in this work.
Heather: Yeah, my name’s Heather Wiese. I’m also in Portland, Oregon. I am a domestic violence survivor advocate for an organization called Raphael [00:05:30] House, and we’re a emergency shelter for domestic violence survivors and a prevention program. We have a lot of different parts of what we do. My program in particular is called Shelter to Stability, and I have the privilege of helping survivors succeed after they go to their own homes and they exit shelter.
Heather: So I get to be in relationship with them one-on-one advocacy. We run support groups and I’ve been doing that for the last six years. [00:06:00] And how I got into this is actually my first part of my career was at family homeless shelters and I you know, one of the leading causes of homelessness is domestic violence, so I was constantly working with survivors for years.
Heather: And I was really impressed and excited when we got to do things that help people change their relationship with money to give them like financial literacy skills. So as I was doing my work, I was seeing just like light bulbs come on, like how they could [00:06:30] finally learn how to save, how they could, even in extreme poverty, how they could change that relationship with money, how they could make their credit score go up.
Heather: And I was just kind of learning as I went. I was very young when I started, and so I actually learned by teaching people alongside them and was just really encouraged by the small things we could do with financial literacy to help people really find their footing again after experiencing abuse or addiction or houselessness.
Heather: And so [00:07:00] I switched over into domestic violence work kind of on a personal journey because I’m not a survivor myself, but it has touched every single relationship in my extended family and me very personally. And so I really still ask that question even after like 16 years of working in shelters, like, “Why don’t they just leave?”
Heather: And so when I had the opportunity to shift into this work it was really partly because I wanted to understand that and see, you know, what was behind this and how could we support these people who are you [00:07:30] know, forced into making these decisions that, you know, seem to hurt them. And so, I love my work. I love to get to be that cheerleader with people and, you know, whether it’s saving that first $10 they’ve never saved in their life you know, or seeing them, you know, pay off a debt that they’ve had over their heads for years it’s kind of my passion and something I’m really excited to talk about.
Maggie: Yeah, Thank you both for coming on and doing the amazing work that you’re doing. It’s not going unnoticed. And so we appreciate that. so I know [00:08:00] you guys on your website talk about the survivor-led approach, and I think it’s interesting that you offer or you honor every definition of survivorship, supporting those impacted by intimate partner violence, which I think is what we think of all the time, but also child abuse, elder abuse, and stalking.
Maggie: And so these are all different forms which I think are really interesting. Do you guys find that you support all these pretty equally, or is there definitely, like, one more dominant than the other?
Joleen: Yeah, that’s a great question. I [00:08:30] think at FinAbility, our definition of domestic violence and stalking is pretty broad for a reason, and we really do wanna support folks who are in relationship with other people who are being harmed who you know, the definition really of domestic violence is around one person gaining and maintaining power and control over another person, and that can happen in all kinds of different relationships.
Joleen: Speaking from my experience at FinAbility, I would say a majority of [00:09:00] the folks we support are folks who are in intimate partner relationships who are experiencing domestic violence or the children of those who grew up in a home with domestic violence happening. Even adult children who are you know, continuing to support a parent who are going through a lot themselves because of living in a home with violence.
Joleen: We certainly have also worked with folks, especially elderly folks, who are being harmed by a younger family member as well. But I would say [00:09:30] in large part, we are working primarily with adult survivors who are in unsafe or have been in unsafe relationships with an intimate partner.
Joleen: How about you, Heather?
Heather: Yeah, our program at Raphael House is primarily for intimate partner violence. So, we do have multi-generational though families in our shelter. So, we have had adult children with their parents. We’ve had grandparents with their children. We’ve had, child survivors come back after experiencing [00:10:00] abuse before.
Heather: So, but what our main population is for the domestic violence
Maggie: Yeah, that makes sense. It leaks over to all these different relationships, anybody in the house. I mean, it’s not self-contained in any way. And so for this podcast, we are gonna be diving into financial abuse but there is something else that is on your website that I really wanna bring top of mind because I think, like, domestic abuse people hear about and are more familiar with.
Maggie: But you guys have something called [00:10:30] technology abuse, which, of course, you know, now that we’re on social media and technology is in our hands, living on our phones. I wanna talk more about this and how you’re seeing this because, you know, we hear about kids and maybe some cyberbullying, which is still very bad but different than kind of technology abuse.
Maggie: So I’d love to hear kind of what this is, what you’re kind of seeing out there and how we can start, you know, being more aware?
Joleen: Yeah, this is something that is becoming more and more prevalent and used again as another [00:11:00] tactic of power and control. we work with survivors at kind of any point along their journey. We’ve primarily work with folks who are in a little bit of a place of more stability.
Joleen: So, usually after they have left an abusive situation and are in a place where they can start thinking about their financial goals and kind of where they want to head in the future. And we’ll talk about this more, but, financial abuse continues, can often continue long after someone has left an abusive [00:11:30] relationship, and I think technology is a tool that is being used to continue that type of abuse.
Joleen: If you think about how often you know, in an intimate relationship, if you’re married to someone, you have a lot of their information, right? So being able to use technology to access you know, logins to you know, access to bank accounts. There’s a lot of tracking devices these days so folks are being stalked using technology.
Joleen: So it’s a really [00:12:00] ever-changing field, and it’s a lot to keep up with. But I think that this field is really starting to understand how it’s being used so much and are really trying to respond to that. Yeah, I’d love to hear. I know Heather and I have talked about this and I know I feel overwhelmed with it often.
Joleen: And luckily we have some resources that we call on quite often.
Heather: Yeah. This is something it’s hard to keep your head above water with, and i’ve been recently seeing it play out quite a [00:12:30] lot. And like she mentioned, it could be AirTags, you know, even putting it in a kid’s backpack so you can figure out what school they’re at now if you have shared custody.
Heather: There’s so much technology that, like, you don’t actually have to know that much about to get an app or get, you know, download something that can get into people’s emails. We have Ring cameras. Ring cameras are really a common thing to have now. Lots of people have them.
Heather: Survivors really like them to be able to see what’s going on outside their apartments. There’s ways to [00:13:00] tap into those so that you can then see the survivor coming and going and manage what they’re doing through that technology. There’s selling information on the dark web.
Heather: I mean, it’s just like the things, it’s like you can’t even imagine sometimes the lengths and also the ease that it is to especially for stalking get access to somebody. So, like she said, we have some resources. It’s not our forte, I think with what we do.
Heather: [00:13:30] But the National Network to End Domestic Violence has a really great support called Safety Net, and that’s a key one that I’ll send people to and connect them with when they’re having things that are really shutting down their ability to live their normal life.
Joleen: One thing that I thought of while Heather was talking is something that we’re seeing a lot more of that has felt like a surprise to me is the use of banking apps and cash apps like Venmo and Zelle to send threatening or demeaning messages. And this can be long after someone has [00:14:00] left an abusive relationship and they’re still, having contact with an abusive partner in this way.
Joleen: So there’s a lot of insidious ways that technology is being used. And grateful that we have partners like the National Network to End Domestic Violence, their Safety Net program to help us and survivors sort of navigate those really complicated topics.
Maggie: Yeah, it’s so hard ’cause you wanna stay connected. you know, I mean, I’ve had stories where, you know, people post on Instagram and then their partner shows, or you know, their ex-partner shows up there after they, like, posted that [00:14:30] location or yeah, you know. There’s so many different things, like you said with the Air Tags, and I know we’re trying to implement some new things of, like, if You’re around an Air Tag that’s following you, it will start beeping.
Maggie: But sometimes it’s pretty faint. I’ve heard it. Like, it’s also hard to hear. So I’m glad we’re just talking about that and bringing some light to it because as great as this technology can be, it can also be really dangerous, and I think, yeah, just having someone… You know, it used to be at least when I’m home I feel safe.
Maggie: I have maybe my camera on the front [00:15:00] door, but I know I’m safe inside my home. But when someone’s on your phone, then kind of blowing you up from that standpoint, you never feel like
Maggie: you can be off and in that safe place, which is really hard, especially when someone is trying to heal.
Maggie: And so let’s kinda move into financial abuse.
Maggie: And so when most people hear about financial abuse, I feel like they think, you know, someone’s hiding money or controlling credit cards. But it’s something way bigger than that. So how does financial abuse actually look in, in real life?
Joleen: I think something that [00:15:30] people are always really surprised about when I talk about what I do and our work at FinAbility is that 99% of survivors of domestic violence experience financial abuse as part of the abuse that they suffer. So it’s incredibly common. It’s a primary tool of control that is a leading reason that survivors either stay in an abusive relationship or remain trapped in an abusive relationship or return to an abusive relationship.
Joleen: So on average, it takes about seven times for a survivor to successfully leave a harm doer[00:16:00] and finances are a huge, huge, huge part of that. I think the average amount of money that a survivor has when they leave is $250. So I think about trying to rebuild my life with $250, and that feels impossible.
Joleen: And so I think to Heather’s point about saying, you know, “Why doesn’t she just leave?” I think we often will cite that statistic to folks who feel really floored by that as well. So yeah, the [00:16:30] ways that we kind of talk about financial abuse again, like you said, Maggie, that you know, people think about it in a really certain way, and I think it’s important to also understand that financial abuse has a lot of crossovers into other types of abuse.
Joleen: And again, it’s really a tool a method of gaining and maintaining power and control and really eclipses someone’s safety and independence. So we like to kind of think about this in three sort of main pillars. The first is financial [00:17:00] exploitation.
Joleen: So this can look like things like identity theft creating fraudulent accounts and credit card applications. This can be direct theft from an account, a paycheck, or even benefits. We’re talking a lot about coerced debt these days, so this is where a survivor is forced into taking out loans that benefit a harm doer.
Joleen: And then we talked about the digital harassment piece as well, so using those banking systems and banking apps and cash apps to harass somebody. [00:17:30] So, you know, survivors often then are bearing full responsibility of debt and credit damage that has lifelong effects. You know, there’s loss of financial resources with that obviously prevent access to safety access to housing often means that folks feel like returning to an abusive situation is their better option.
Joleen: And then I would say that there’s also a lot of fear and shame around even accessing financial products banking [00:18:00] systems, because they themselves can sometimes feel unsafe. So, sometimes, you know, you get the letter in the mail From your banking institution that says, “Oh, you’ve changed your address.”
Joleen: Sometimes that can go to a former address, so the address of a harm doer, and can then identify the new address of a survivor. So, sometimes we see folks who are really fearful of accessing those systems, which can also impede independence, impede options for safety. [00:18:30] And then we talk about financial control, which is what you sort of, talked about as well.
Joleen: So, this is, you know, restricting or controlling access to income or savings either joint and independent accounts. This also can look like withholding documents needed to create a new account. So, if someone is making a plan to leave or is just trying to have a little bit of independence making sure that they can’t do that because they can’t, they don’t have their ID, they don’t have their passport, that sort of thing.
Joleen: [00:19:00] Obviously technology is very involved in this, so, messing with passwords monitoring transactions monitoring ATM transactions. And then of course there’s a lot of surveillance and then punishment within those relationships. So, I’ve worked with folks who’ve been kept on a really unrealistic allowance essentially, and there’s punishment for not sort of meeting the needs of the entire family on a really unrealistic budget. So folks are going with their [00:19:30] basic needs being unmet safety options are completely out of reach. And again, that, like, really deep fear and shame and confusion around financial institutions, financial decisions. We see this play out in our financial mentorship program where some of our mentees come into the program and are, say things like, ” I am so overwhelmed.
Joleen: I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m not where I should be, and I just don’t even wanna open my bank account and look at what I have. I don’t wanna open [00:20:00] my mail because there, there will be bills in there, let alone trying to look at my credit report and understand what that is and, or kind of dive into what that could mean for my life.”
Joleen: So a lot of disconnection from, you know, their personal finances which can lead to more long-term financial instability. And then finally, the third sort of pillar that we talk about is financial sabotage. So this looks like intentionally damaging credit. Also can be intentionally [00:20:30] damaging personal property.
Joleen: So, I’ve worked with someone who whose harm doer intentionally after they had separated created a lot of damage to their rental apartment and the apartment was fully in her name and then that was a really dark mark on her rental history, therefore making it really hard for her to find housing in the future.
Joleen: So again, undermining that housing stability or rental history. Something we hear about a lot that’s maybe not talked about [00:21:00] as much is interfering with work or education or caregiving responsibilities. So, we… a lot of stalking behaviors happening. So someone goes to work abusive partner or ex-partner is calling all the time, showing up all the time.
Joleen: Maybe that’s preventing someone from going to work, either physically doing so refusing to take on childcare responsibilities so it makes it impossible to go to work or school and then on the other side of that a much, you know, another [00:21:30] pretty dark side is that we’ve also worked with folks who have been forced into sex work or prostitution to you know, to ruin a reputation, but also to you know, really benefit the harm doer.
Joleen: And yeah intentionally sabotaging accounts, freezing funds totally draining an account. I feel like we hear that a lot. And then manipulating legal or child welfare systems to really maintain financial dependence. We hear about that a lot [00:22:00] post-separation. But I’d love, too, to hear from Heather.
Joleen: I know you probably have some experience and stories around that as well.
Heather: Yes, unfortunately I do. But most of the work that I’m doing now is with folks after they leave the abuse and they’re, you know, in safety, like I said, they’re in their own homes. And it continues after leaving, unfortunately. And so the impact is very long-term and you know, it can really make and [00:22:30] trigger a person, When they’re trying to move forward in their life, any time, like she said, opening that, you know, bank account or looking at your credit report, it’s an on-paper reminder of what happened to them.
Heather: And so it’s really overwhelming. And I’ll start by, you know, safety planning we’re trying to untangle those accounts because the first thing sometimes is retaliation once they leave. And I have permission to share this from a survivor, but there was a person that I am working with right now who has was married for forty years.
Heather: She was married to a [00:23:00] firefighter, someone who was very upstanding in the community, had a lot of connections. They had a huge pension. And she was being physically and sexually abused within her marriage. And she finally left, and the retaliation was to drain all of her life savings, including her own parents’ inheritance from that account.
Heather: And then because they’re gonna go through divorce proceedings, put it into an offshore account, so it was no longer even visible. And she said that that experience was as violating [00:23:30] and impactful as the sexual assault that she experienced in her marriage. And so these are like, you know, this is our, their lives.
Heather: It’s not just about money. It’s not just about our credit score. This is making it so people can’t actually, you know, thrive and take care of themselves. Another thing that we mentioned the credit report, that is anecdotally I’ve been told by people that they are more anxious and afraid to [00:24:00] access and look at their credit report than they were to leave their abuser because of that long-term impact, because it’s concrete, it’s something there.
Heather: And they feel also like because they maybe don’t have always the knowledge or the financial empowerment that others have to know what to do with it. So, you know, it’s very overwhelming. It’s very overwhelming to look at that. Also, you know, this is my PSA. I just have to throw this out there because so many people don’t realize this.
Heather: But the credit report [00:24:30] itself is really like a point of safety for people. She mentioned, you know, like a bank account, you change your address, the abuser might get the address sent to them. But if you have been in a long-term relationship with someone, they’re probably gonna know your Social Security number, your birth date.
Heather: They may be able to answer basic security questions about, you know, your mother’s maiden name, what, where you lived before, things like that. And so they can get access to that credit report. Well, now, when you apply for any kind of credit, you have a soft pull on your report, right? So it [00:25:00] shows I went to AT&T in Oregon.
Heather: I’ve applied for a place to live in, at this address, and it will show up on those credit reports. So then we have another point of access for abusers to find someone and locate them. So that’s some… It’s like my PSA. A lot, even advocates don’t even realize that, that’s like a little, like, loophole.
Heather: So then we have to get really creative with that. We maybe have to run our credit through a different way, like out of state at a different bank. We wanna create [00:25:30] maybe different pathways for survivors to, to get to their credit without it causing harm. The good news is that I do see people get out of this.
Heather: You know, once they’re walking alongside someone, whether it’s a FinAbility mentor, financial mentor, in their local coalition, domestic violence coalition, there’s, you know, they can connect to financial empowerment programs. But walking alongside the advocate, you can start to look at those long-term effects of what’s going on, and you can sit with someone and say, “Hey, I’m here with [00:26:00] you, and we’re gonna, we’re gonna do this step by step together.”
Heather: So, but yeah, it’s very long-term and very impactful beyond leaving the harm doer.
Maggie: I think these were so many great examples just to bring to light. I mean, I could say so many different things right now.
Maggie: It’s just, it gets you fired up but it also
Maggie: really, you know, makes you think about how on guard the survivor needs to be. Because these systems are not made, you know, for a survivor, right?
Maggie: And so, of course, somebody you’ve [00:26:30] been married to for 40 years knows your Social Security number. I mean, that’d be crazy for them not to, right? And so it’s just, of course, they have this access. It’s being followed around, and so being anxious about that mail being sent and these different things, I mean, it’s always on edge and it’s hard to listen to ’cause I know so many women who have, are not being abused or in these situations don’t wanna look at their credit score anyways.
Maggie: Much less seeing, you know, what this relationship has done and, you know, the creditors, they don’t care. [00:27:00] They really don’t. They want their money, and so it’s hard to reason with that and share your story again and again of, you know, this is why I shouldn’t have to pay this and these different things.
Maggie: I mean, you can put up the fight but that’s also so, taxing on that person as well. So it’s so challenging and I’m glad you guys are here to support women and have some resources and some workarounds to do these things because it does seem like it’s coming at every point and turn which is really difficult.
Maggie: Yeah, especially if you’re on the allowance, if they’re watching all your spending all these different [00:27:30] things. I mean, it’s just, it’s a lot. It’s a lot and I appreciate you being able to support women through this. And so I know we’ve talked about this a little bit, but like it doesn’t stop when the survivor leaves.
Maggie: Sometimes it gets worse and so I know you guys talked about some of those examples of the mail and people still being able to follow you and still hack into any of your accounts. Is there anything else that you kinda wanna share of what is actually happening to women after they’ve already gotten out?
Maggie: Any other ways that you’ve seen it almost get worse that people should know [00:28:00] about almost to protect themselves?
Heather: I’m just thinking about how the, she mentioned work and how it can prevent people from being able to get jobs, promotions, things like that. The fallout of that is, like, a spotty work history. So I went to a conference, and a nurse was sharing about how she would go to… She was a fantastic nurse, and she would get a job, and every time she would get a job, she would get fired because the, you know, she either have to call out because she had visible [00:28:30] bruises all over herself, or she had to you know, avoid whatever was going on at home where he’d find her again.
Heather: So then we get this shoddy works history that then impacts, you know, someone’s career. I just wanna mention child support because this is, like, one of the main things that abusers will… And we don’t think of it as financial abuse, but it is. Not paying your child support by changing your job every few months because they will then catch up with [00:29:00] you, and they’ll start garnishing your check is financial abuse.
Heather: And so that is something that, you know, has to be fought in court again, like we’re back into systems that maybe they don’t trust. And when I tell people, you know, a participant, “You know, that’s a form of financial abuse,” it’s like, “What?” Like, that is. You know, even the participants don’t have the language for it.
Heather: And we’ll do these, you know, educational things, and they’ll be like, ” I knew about emotional abuse. I knew about physical abuse. I knew about those things, but I didn’t know there was something called [00:29:30] financial abuse.” And then those light bulbs go on. And then, like again, we’re just trying to, like, break down, like, I’m constantly safety planning with people, so it’s not a one and done thing.
Heather: It’s not like, ” Oh, you’re out. We’re safety planning. The safety plan is ready. It’s set.” We’re doing that. I’ve been working with people, the same people sometimes for five years or more now. This is my program. I get to stay with people long-term. And I get to not only see them thrive and grow but also see when the abuser comes back into the picture.
Heather: And so we have to just keep looking at things. I [00:30:00] think that’s maybe to take away from, like, the ongoing is, like, it’s not a one and done. You have to keep checking your credit report. We have a thing called the Address Confidentiality Program where they can put their, and this is offered at many state, in many different states, but they can make it so their mail’s actually forwarded through the the capital and goes to a PO box, and then it’s mailed to them, so they don’t have to put their names in systems that will, are easy to then find, like the DMV or DHS or being a [00:30:30] voter registration is very easily to access where you live.
Heather: So things like that just constantly kind of having to check in with people and see, like, how are we doing? Like, do you have points of, you know, maybe access that you haven’t thought of? So I think that’s just something to take away is, like, it’s just not ever maybe over, which is really sad.
Maggie: I mean, it is, you think, “Oh, they got out,” and you’re like, “Yes, and they’re still fighting all these other [00:31:00] things,” right? It’s still, you’re still fighting up against this, they still don’t feel that safe and secure yet, which understandably so.
Maggie: I think it’s when women learn about financial abuse, it’s not to be like, Oh, well now I, know I’m a victim,” but I we hear so many women say, I should have known, I should have done this, I should have done that.”
Maggie: And it’s not for you to blame yourself, you know? It’s outside of your control, which I think especially, I mean, we work with so many women. I, you know, I’m only a woman, So, I can only [00:31:30] share our perspective. But it’s always the shame of I should have known, I should have done this it’s me, it’s my fault, it’s these different things where it’s not.
Maggie: You have to look outside of that and it’s not in your control. And Heather, kinda like you were saying, you know, they keep going back to court. Sometimes I know people who are
Maggie: like, “Well, paying for the attorney, paying for the time out of work, is it worth that fight?” Which is again, kind of letting them win.
Maggie: Is it going through the system that I don’t trust, you know? And so it’s just always this pigeonholed corner [00:32:00] of, you know, what should I do because, you know, by the end of the day, all the money’s gonna end up going to the lawyer, Right Like, it’s this whole process that’s just So difficult to navigate.
Maggie: And, you know, now 2026, economic pressure, inflation, housing costs. I mean, Joleen, I think about the $250, which, you know, 10 years ago might have got you a little farther, but today, I mean, That might get you a hotel room for one night. Like,
Maggie: maybe.
Maggie: And so, you know, [00:32:30] what’s the current landscape looking like for survivors who are trying to get financially stable?
Maggie: Is it… I mean, I’m assuming it’s harder than what it used to be. But what do you need people to know about what’s really going on out there?
Heather: So I’ve been in this field for so long, and I actually started in 2003 just working with people in, you know, shelters. And so it’s funny because when you say is it worse now, it it’s actually, we were on a upward trajectory I felt like for a while.
Heather: We were you [00:33:00] know, 2003-2020 we were doing better with, you know, awareness with tenant education and tenant rights, rent control. There was more assistance. There’s a more conversation about affordable housing, things like this. And so, and then, you know, COVID hit, and we actually ran into a lot of money, you know, that was given to nonprofits to further people forward.
Heather: And so we kind of had this moment of like, “Oh, I think things are going [00:33:30] better,” you know, in general. We’re going at least this way. I think that right now is what we’re experiencing is just a lot of fear. It hasn’t necessarily played out in front of my eyes in the impacts yet, but we know that these impacts are coming.
Heather: We know that funding is being cut. We are, you know, the budgets of our state, and we talk particularly about Oregon and Portland in general, but, you know, there’s a lot of budget deficits. There’s a lot of things on the chopping block right now. There’s been a lot of [00:34:00] fight behind that, so we haven’t seen it necessarily what the impact is yet.
Heather: we have a program called the Emergency Housing Voucher Program. These are basically like a Section 8 voucher given with permanent supportive housing, so they are given with some client assistance and some case management, and these are for the most vulnerable survivors who cannot work or have disabilities.
Heather: For whatever reason, they’re unable to sustain themselves long-term, so they need these. This is a need. And those have [00:34:30] been told that they are no longer permanent, and they will be being taken away in November. This is hundreds of families in Portland that will be essentially homeless because they have no other options.
Heather: So that I think once that, you know, if that actually plays out, I mean, we’re doing the best we can to fight it in legislation and like going to, you know, the local meetings and things like that. But I mean, that is where I feel like, wow, I mean, I have not seen that kind of impact in such a drastic way since I started this work.
Heather: But we definitely [00:35:00] have seen, you know, when they’ve said there’s been some funding that said, “We’re gonna cut it,” and then we’ve pushed back, and we’ve gotten that funding still. So using our voices is still effective and important. We can’t just roll over.
Heather: But but yes, there’s just, I think in general, there’s just a lot of fear from survivors who are relying on those kind of supports.
Joleen: agree. I I think since January of 2025, the landscape has continued to change, and there’s a lot of unknowns and things that have really shifted, and cuts [00:35:30] and promises to cut, things changing. And I think on the ground, survivors feel that. And survivors are sort of saying, “Oh, this net, this system of support that has been there for a long time that is part of my safety plan, is changing and shifting.”
Joleen: And so that does cause a lot of anxiety and fear. And so I guess I would say to folks who are able support your local domestic violence shelter, support your local domestic violence programs, whether [00:36:00] that’s, you know, volunteering or if you can give funds, go to their galas, those sorts of things.
Joleen: We just really need that type of support. We don’t know what is ahead. And you know, I think we’re all feeling like, for example, like I filled up my car yesterday and I was like, “Holy moly, this is crazy.” So imagine if part of your safety plan is driving somewhere to a safe family or friend and your limited $250 is now gonna have to stretch [00:36:30] much farther.
Joleen: So, supporting organizations that support survivors, I think can be really powerful. And just one more soapbox that I’ll stand on is that we’re in a time where there’s a lot of talk about survivors and trying not to get too political, but I think survivors right now are feeling like people don’t believe survivors.
Joleen: And I think just standing up forward and saying, “I support, I trust, and I [00:37:00] believe survivors,” is incredibly powerful. I hear from participants in our program all the time about how this time, this day and age just feels– they feel really invisible. And so I think stepping forward and using your voice, like Heather said, in all these ways can be really powerful, so
Maggie: Yeah I’m glad you mentioned that because we have to be heard, we have to be believed. Otherwise people are gonna be like, “Why didn’t you say anything?” It’s like, what difference would that make. But let’s talk about resources before we ask our last question. [00:37:30] What resources are out there? Tell me about, you know, what you guys are doing.
Maggie: I know you’re more Portland specific, so what other resources might you know about across the nation? Because we’ve talked a lot about a lot of bad situations, but we wanna help women get out of them. So how can we help there?
Joleen: Yeah, the thing I say generally are there’s two two things that I kind of say about folks who I maybe don’t know where you are. You might not be in Portland, you might not be in Oregon. So there’s the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That’s a great place to start. You can call and you can ask about what your local [00:38:00] resources are and know that’s just your starting point.
Joleen: And then I would call that
Joleen: local resource and really understand what the programs are on the ground. There’s all kinds of innovative programs happening right now. So, for example Raphael House where Heather works it’s not just a shelter program. They have all kinds of incredible support to survivors and I think that’s a really wonderful thing to know that maybe
Joleen: you’re, you know, looking for you know, just support, someone to talk [00:38:30] to.
Joleen: Calling, knowing your local resources is really helpful. The other thing that I’ll mention is an app called My Plan. This is an online decision-making and safety planning tool. This is for the folks, often myself included, who doesn’t feel comfortable picking up a phone and making that phone call and, like, having to talk.
Joleen: This is a really great tool. It’s personalized so you can put in what your situation is, what you hope your situation will be. It’s [00:39:00] also a great tool for friends and family members who know survivors. It has a whole side of it that is for how to support how to be a supportive person to a survivor and I think that…
Joleen: I have learned a ton from it being, you know, in this field for a really long time. So I would say that those are two really great places to start. In particular, thinking about financial abuse, I think the National Network to End Domestic Violence they have several programs focused on financial empowerment and financial and economic justice [00:39:30] and they’re also a great place to start.
Joleen: But Heather, I’d love to hear your thoughts about resources as well.
Heather: Yeah, you stole one of mine. I already plugged the NNEDV, the they, with the safety net for their tech support. But they do have really some really innovative programs. There’s some programs that are doing really amazing things with matching savings. You may have heard of IDAs and these, but these are for, like specific for survivors.
Heather: There are so many good I’ve gone to the [00:40:00] NNEDV Financial Empowerment Conference for a couple of years and hearing from different states, those coalitions are being really creative in how they give resources to survivors. One that I would say from that website would be the Independence Project, and this is just a really basic way to start building your credit.
Heather: I’ve referred this out several times even the last month. For people who are like, “I can’t approach that debt. I don’t have the ability to, you know, take [00:40:30] on debt repayment,” or, “It’s too scary or emotional,” the capacity isn’t there. But they can have a microloan through the Independence Program and it’s $100.
Heather: You take out a loan, it’s zero interest and they pay it back over 10 months, $10 a month and it helps their credit score go up. So it’s just something like that where it can give just a little bit of glimmer of hope in those situations can really change someone’s agency. They can feel like there’s something I can do.
Heather: [00:41:00] I’m not completely helpless and it can, you know, just one degree off the track we’re heading in a totally different direction than we were. You know, we are not heading off a cliff. We’re gonna go somewhere. Nationwide it’s really looking at what’s in your state, what’s in your city, what are your local empowerment programs for survivors that are accessible.
Maggie: Yeah, those sound like a lot of great resources. I’m excited to get all those in the show notes and all that stuff so people can have those resources to reach out to as you’re not alone. There are so many people in every [00:41:30] city doing this great work, and so we wanna make sure if you need the resources, you can get your hands on those for sure.
Maggie: There is a question we like to ask all of our guests, so I’d like both of you guys to answer. We ask every guest this. because we think it matters. And so what? does financial freedom mean to you personally?
Joleen: I would say for me, if I were to distill it down, it is choice and options. And that can be so many different things. You know, we can talk about it in terms of safety. We can talk about it in terms of how you want your family to, to [00:42:00] look.
Joleen: How, what kind of, like, career and job you want. And I think just being able to have choice and options as a woman in this world right now, I think those things are incredibly important. So, yeah, wonderful question.
Heather: I think for me, it’s not about having all the money in the world, but it’s about having the power of knowledge in the choices I get to make, and also having peace [00:42:30] in those choices. Like, having that I really do… We have to do a lot of healing from money trauma and our relationship with money to even interact with it.
Heather: And so for me, having that freedom to not be afraid of money and looking at it, but being able to have peace around it, knowledge around the choices I make, and not live out those with shame and regret. That feels like freedom to me
Maggie: I love it. It’s awesome
Maggie: well, I [00:43:00] appreciate you both for all the work that you’re doing, coming on and sharing this, sharing these stories because it- we need to keep talking about this sh*t. We really do. We need to bring light to it and make it less taboo. I don’t want any more women sitting in shame or in these relationships where they feel like they can’t get out.
Maggie: There are resources out there. We want to support you. So I appreciate, you know, you sharing this message today. I encourage any listeners to, you know, take an action, to share this with a friend, to keep the conversation going as we just have to keep talking about it. [00:43:30] So thank you, Heather. Thank you, Joleen, and until next time, be financially fearless.
[00:44:00]
