How to Take a Career Break Without Going Broke with Katrina McGhee
What if the real risk isn’t leaving your job… but staying?
This week, we’re joined by Katrina McGhee, a career break and sabbatical coach who helps high-achieving women step off the ladder, reclaim their time, and come back to a life that feels even better.
Katrina shares her own story of walking away from a six-figure career with just $1,500 in savings, and how she turned that bold decision into a 20-month life-changing break.
We dive into what it actually takes to plan a sabbatical, how to shift from fear to strategy, and why taking a break might be the most powerful investment you ever make in yourself.
Katrina reminds us that a break isn’t about walking away from your life. It’s about coming back to it stronger, clearer, and more aligned. If you’ve ever felt burned out, stuck, or like there has to be more than just working nonstop… join us for next week’s Money Talks “How to Financially Plan for a Career Break”. Click here to registerfor FREE and bring your questions!
Join Katrina’s free workshop on May 13th on how to Take a Break Without Falling Behind
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Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
Maggie:[00:00:00] My cheeks hurt from smiling.
Dr. Barb: That’s a good thing.
Maggie: I know.
Dr. Barb: It’s because you’re so giddy about what we just talked about.
Maggie: I love to travel. I wanna travel more. And it’s silly ’cause I use money as an excuse, which is not great for my community, that I’m empowered to be financially fearless. There’s so many different competing priorities. I feel like now travel’s become so much easier. But even when you were young and single. You would tell me when you went to Barcelona with your friends and you took yourself on a couple trips too, and I just feel you’re still talking about that, right? , These are the investments that keep coming back to you and fun memories and deepened friendships, and.
Dr. Barb: Yes. I’m a firm believer in travel with your family, with your friends in travel experiences. I don’t think I could travel the year around the world because I also like to come home.
Maggie: I was like, you love your routine and you’re bed.
Dr. Barb: I do, but I don’t mind leaving it either and enjoying, travel. But. I love the whole thinking of, just throwing out everything up in the [00:01:00] air and saying, you know what, it doesn’t have to be at 65.
You can take a month, two month, three months, and more a year, maybe 20 months, and just continue traveling, right? As long as you make a plan. Plan the work, and work the plan or plan to travel and travel.
Maggie: There’s just so many things that are so different. I think when you’re young, you have the flexibility and more of the ease and less medication and just all the things to manage where, you can just be so much more flexible at that time.
And yeah, there are big earning years, but they’re also a big living years. And so we gotta live it up. And I think so often it’s then you get married and you have the kids and you settle down. It’s what if I don’t wanna settle down? What if I wanna go bing, bang, boom, around the earth? It’s a big earth. I gotta see it all.
Dr. Barb: I know, and it’s doable. That’s the cool thing. It is so doable. We have to reframe that thinking and plan how to finance it. And we talk about all of that on this podcast. Exactly. All of it.
Maggie: Let’s not let them wait anymore. Let’s just dive in.
Dr. Barb: Okay. It’s so much fun.
[00:02:00] Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.
Maggie: All righty. Today we have Katrina McGhee on the podcast, and we are so excited when we reached out to her as I feel like everyone’s living these such long lives right now, and it can’t all be work. And then sometimes people hit retirement and we’re not like as physically capable to do all the things we wanted to do.
And so Katrina is expert on sabbaticals, and so I can’t wait to get into this. So before we dive into all our questions, Katrina, could you introduce yourself to the audience a little bit about who you are [00:03:00] and what you do?
Katrina: Yeah, absolutely. I am a career break and sabbatical coach, so I like to say that I help people who’ve chased the gold stars and climb the ladder, get off so that they can reclaim their time, take some rest, have some fun, live a life, and come back to a version of life that feels a hundred times better.
I am a corporate survivor myself. I had my first career as a healthcare actuary. Left that to go get my MBA, switched careers to market research. Worked at a really big company, out in Minnesota and had like a moment of, of conscious awareness that I was not on the right path anymore and I wasn’t doing what I wanted to do, so I ended up taking a life changing career break that lasted 20 months.
I came back and landed five jobs in five weeks, and that sort of paved the way for me to do the work that I do now.
Maggie: So let’s just like start right there. ’cause the first time I read that I was like, most of us can’t even five job offers right now, it feels like. So first of all, 20 month break, that’s a long time wouldn’t ruin your career? I mean, I even see like a lot of moms who step out of the workforce and you [00:04:00] know, have to explain that break much less just wanting to see the world, which we love by the way.
Like no shame on that, but like how do you explain that to the corporate blah.
Katrina: A lot of it comes down to our belief. I like to tell my clients, it always starts with us first. I’ll be super transparent, I was scared, excited, right? That’s a word I like to use. That describes I think, a lot, the energy of taking a break or taking any really big risk.
You’re terrified and you’re also really freaking excited for this upcoming change. And so I wasn’t a hundred percent sure what would happen, but here’s what I knew, the cost of not answering the question. Like what would happen if I quit my job to do the thing I really wanted to do, which is travel around the world?
Like the cost of never answering that question felt so much bigger and it would haunt me so much more than like any disappointing outcome if I tried to do that thing and it didn’t work out the way that I wanted. So I basically like decided to, to like be honest and be transparent in that within myself, and I looked at what I had, right?
I love to look at the facts. [00:05:00] I’m smart. I went to a really good undergrad. I went to a top 20 MBA business school. I have people that love and support me, which is my network, right? I had done a successful pivot in the past, so. I think it’s really important that you look at the assets that you have already in place as you think about, could I be resilient?
Can I figure this out? I really believed in my ability to figure it out, and it just felt like, I don’t wanna have this unanswered question of like, I’m I’m like 90 years old and I’m like, well, it would’ve been nice to travel around the world for a year, but I was always too afraid to try. Like, I didn’t want that.
To be my story. And so I didn’t know for sure, but I really believed in the base and the foundation that I had, and I was like, I found a career when I had no work experience when I was just a little 21-year-old undergrad with a math degree that was like, I don’t know what actuarial science is, but I guess I’ll give it a try.
Right? So I was like, this girl can do that. She can do a lot of things.
Maggie: I love that. And sometimes we do have to look back and be like, well, I’ve proved it to myself time and time again before so [00:06:00] I can trust myself this time.
Dr. Barb: Sometimes we have to ask, answer the question, what’s the worst that could happen? You could go back and get a job.
Katrina: Exactly. And even if it’s a job you don’t love as much as the one you had, like jobs you can change, right? You could do that job for a year, then find a better job.
Maggie: And so since this is a money podcast, like how did you see that you had the money to do this? You know, where did that come from? Did you have a good savings? Let’s get into kind of the nitty gritty on that.
Katrina: Maggie. LOL is is my answer to that because I had no money when I decided I wanted to do this. What I did have is about 50 something thousand dollars worth of MBA student loans. I had a townhouse that was underwater because of the housing market and the impacts of that.
So I was renting it out. I owned it. I was renting it out. In Atlanta, but I was like losing money or breaking even every month. And, and basically I had a great paying job, but I had $1,500 of savings in my bank account. So once I had the realization that I really wanted to do this, like, it kind of hit me like an [00:07:00] epiphany.
‘Cause I had been working with a life coach trying to find like a third career that’s gonna make me feel happy and fulfilled. And then it’s like, no, I just want a break. I wanna go see some things and do something and live a life, you know? And once I had that burning desire, I had to look at the facts and I was like, I don’t know how a girl affords this because this is not my reality.
So I did what I could do, which is figure out how much money do I actually have to save to take a break, which at that time I thought it would be a one year around the world trip. I did the math, I love spreadsheets. Former actuary $38,000. So okay, I have to come up with $38,000. How am I gonna do that?
I’m just gonna start shifting my values to really align my spending and what I say I value are gonna come together. And I just revisited the way I was spending money and I started slowly saving a couple hundred dollars a month, then 500, then 700, then a thousand, then 1200, and it just started snowballing and I saved $40,000 in 18 months.
And I put my student loans into forbearance, some for deferment. [00:08:00] Depending on what the loan was. And then I went and I traveled around the world and I spent most of that money. I did have a buffer and a cushion for like if life happened, which it did happen while I was on my break in several different ways.
But for me it was like I have to create the means to do this because like. I need this. And so I was very motivated and I really used my math skills and my spreadsheeting to help me figure out a plan to make it happen. But I made really hard choices or big choices during that time, like I was in my early thirties.
Very successful like six figure salary. And I moved in with a roommate, right. I let my very posh, wonderful apartment in the uptown area go. I moved into a nice, a very nice condo, but I had a roommate and you know, that cut my expenses down, but I didn’t feel super grown up for doing that. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but it, but it was like I was making
sacrifices and trade-offs that were so in alignment with this bigger goal. And that really helped me make momentum towards my goal. And then I [00:09:00] came back from that break and I paid off all my student loans, which some of my peers still haven’t done. I paid off all my MBA loans in less than two years, taking a pay cut, right?
So I took a pay cut from where I left, halfway through because I wanted to work for this startup, and I thought it would be really fun. And so my salary coming back was about at parody, but then a year later. I took that pay cut to switch and I still paid off my loans in less than two years, and it was because of the skills I learned while I was saving for my break with that burning desire that I was able to apply those same skills to.
Wouldn’t it be so amazing to be debt free? Wouldn’t it be so amazing to not have to work in corporate ever again if I don’t want to because I have financial freedom in my own context and and definition of it to just. Not have to be spending hundreds or thousands of dollars every month paying bills for things I made decisions on in the past.
So it really served me not only to get on the break, but then to become debt free a couple years later.
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Maggie: Well, I love the transparency. I appreciate that, and that it’s not just like you had this epiphany and the next day you bought your flight. Like no, you put in 18 months to that which is. Uh, the days are long. The years are short, right? And so I know that time you’re probably itching like just to get out to do the thing, but it is, sometimes you need that, that driver to get you there because I know sometimes it’s like paying debt, being debt free isn’t as invigorating.
Like, what’s that next thing that’s gonna get me? Because just paying on the debt is not like getting me up in the morning. Actually, once you have that goal, then everything was like, then I can make it happen, you know? But if the goal’s not titillating enough, then you’re like, Hmm, I’ll get there when I get there.
Katrina: Yeah. You gotta have a real crystallizing why? You’ve gotta be clear on the [00:12:00] why, and it has to be something that like makes your soul speak to you, like it makes your heart sing.
Dr. Barb: I am amazed. So when you do your coaching, just side note, do you teach people how to budget and save so that they can do what they want? Is that part of your coaching?
Katrina: It’s something I can do. It’s not formally part of it because, I mean, it’s, I’ve learned this, right? I’ve been doing this now for almost nine years, and I’ve learned a lot of people that are at a place where they wanna invest in a one-on-one coach. Probably have some savings already, right? So they’re like, I’m ready to make that investment.
So I think it’s a biased subset of people that make their way to do consults with me and hire me. But I have offered resources in the past. I have the tracker that I actually used to figure out what the budget was, estimate the cost, and then like make that saving that $40,000 happen. And even in my book, taking a Career Break For Dummies, I have a whole entire like section on how to get the finances in order, because that is a big part of it for some people, but a lot of people actually.
Can’t afford it at the time that they wanna take it, but they really struggle to give themselves permission [00:13:00] to invest in the break. They view it as a really crazy expense irresponsible, sort of like like, I’m just gonna let it all go and flush it down the toilet. And so it’s reframing it even as an investment and understanding what that would, would do for them, to help them justify spending that money.
Maggie: Yeah, I’ll pay you back tenfold.
Dr. Barb: yeah, with layoffs and burnout, which is real, right? People are struggling a lot. How do women shift from panic mode to strategic mode when facing a career break?
Katrina: Yeah, so you know, if it is voluntary, right? That’s one thing. You get to plan for the success and kind of be intentional about how you’re gonna do it. But if you are landing yourself. An involuntary, sort of layoff situation. I like to say you might not have chosen the start date, but you can still own this experience.
The length of time that you’re actually on a break will vary by your comfort zone, your desire for what you wanna do for this time, but also obviously your finances, right? But even if you can only take a month or two months, I really encourage people to use a [00:14:00] break, especially if you find yourself there involuntarily to think about and reflect on.
Who am I today? What do I actually even want? I like to parallel it to dating, right? Like if you are in a place where you’re just desperate to find a partner and you’re like, I’ll take anyone. Just, do you have a pulse? Will you not like like scream at me, like I’ll, I’ll date anyone. I just don’t wanna be alone.
Like when you’re going up to people with that energy, no one wants to date you. It’s like, why? Like it’s the desperation, right? Versus. If you like got broken up with and you weren’t expecting it, and you go inward and you do the reflecting and you realize like, I am like worthy, I am valuable, I am grounded.
Like I don’t have to prove my worth. Like I am clear on it. Now I got recalibrated and I’m also clear on who I want to be with and what a good partner would be for me in the season of my life. You can show up to dating with the energy of like, yeah, I’m confident. I’m excited. Like, let me get to know you and figure out if this is a good fit.
And so I encourage people, right? Especially if it’s an involuntary situation, to be able [00:15:00] to give themselves the space for the equivalent of that to be like, think about the skills I have, the network, the interest, the strengths, but also what do I want for my career and how my life and career kind of blend together.
Because how you show up in an interview will be so much more powerful. And how you represent yourself in conversation will be so much more powerful if you’re sold on yourself and you’re clear on what you want, and you’re very directed in that versus like a pray and spray type of situation where you’re just desperately trying to find something.
Maggie: Really with that same energy, you could probably get more money, more of what you want ’cause that same energy you are on being sporadic. You just send to figuring out who you are and what you want and really being direct. And so what do you find is like one of the biggest financial mistakes women make before taking a sabbatical?
Katrina: Yeah, so I would say there are a couple, I can give you three pretty basic ones. One is not building in a buffer for emergencies, right? So if you’re in the saving and planning stage where you’re saving for it or you’re planning for it proactively, it’s gonna be a voluntary thing. You [00:16:00] just wanna make sure that you’re thinking about those emergencies, unexpected cost, and also leaving yourself in today’s job market, just in case, right?
A longer runway towards reentering. Right? So just having enough set aside for a reentry period so you don’t have to switch from, I had an amazing break and now I’m super desperate because the break is over and I have to get a job in a week. So I definitely recommend thinking about that, having a buffer for that.
Number two is considering talking to your. Advisors or whoever, like if you need to, but, but considering low income and no income tax year benefits. So again, if you’re proactively planning for a break, thinking about things like Roth conversions, capital gains just potential benefits that might come to you from having a year where you have lower income or no income, and being proactive about that.
And the third one kind of swings to the other side of thinking about the permission to spend money and the reduction of money, panic. It’s helpful to set kind of a red line number in your mind [00:17:00] of when you wanna hit the panic button, if you choose to go on a break. So I had a red light number for myself.
It was really low. It was probably like about $10,000, but it’s like when my savings gets to this number, I need to reassess where I’m at on my break. I need to ask myself, like, do I have clarity? Am I ready to reenter? Am I clear on what that would be? And if I’m not ready. Do I have to get ready?
Because like, this is a threshold where the discomfort suddenly becomes, it’s like the like everything starts shaking in the car. It’s like, this is where the, the wheels feel like they’re gonna start to come off. So let me reassess. What happens is a lot of times, right, like you’ll be on your break and the money will be going down, down, down, and you’re not making any to replenish it.
And your brain will start freaking out because for so long you might have been saving and you might see the number go up, up, up. And it can be hard to actually pour into the things you said you wanted to do on the break that are ultimately what are gonna create the. Best version of you coming out of the break that can crush it in the job [00:18:00] market and crush it in the interviews, right?
So it’s, it’s like you wanna invest in fulfilling the purpose and the themes of why you’re taking this break. And so having that red line number can be very helpful when your brain starts to get really activated and panic about spending money. And it’s like, no, no. This money actually has a purpose. It’s an investment.
I’m fulfilling my purpose in themes, but when it gets down to X, whatever your X is, I will reassess and if I need to reenter, I will start applying for jobs.
Maggie: Yeah, that’s a great idea to have. Especially having that red line. And I think a lot of people also in retirement kind of have that fear of like, we’ve been our whole lives trying to fill up this bucket that when you start taking it out, you get really anxious and it’s like, actually that’s what you worked your whole life for and, and really we worked our whole life to.
To go see the world and have these experiences. And so I feel like those are very, similar. Did you like pick up any odd jobs while you were traveling? Did you earn any income while traveling at all?
Katrina: Not at all. Oh, actually I had a fun, it was not a job, but I did pick up like a thousand dollars. But it’s a [00:19:00] very odd wave, I will tell you, ’cause it’s kind of funny. When I was on the road trip portion of my career break, I did a three and a half month road trip through the US in a big circle. My then boyfriend, we are no longer together, but he was a really great supporter.
He came along for that road trip portion of my break, and I love, like slot machines. Not like a, I am not a gambling addict, but like, it’s always was fun to me to go in and see the lights and like, do I get the bonus round? You know, like it’s just, I just like, it’s like entertainment. And so we had this system where when we were driving, if we saw a billboard for a casino and they had a player’s club, which is where they’ll sometimes give you like $10, $20 to like start, you know.
Get the membership and then start, we would go and we would never spend the money that we want and we would just put it into a pot. And so we went around the US and three months later, I think it was like something like $1,200 that we had just made, like collected. And I was like, this is great. So that was a really fun thing.
But outside of that, no, it was just me being on a break. I never really picked up any side income outside of that.
Dr. Barb: Wow. Yeah. Sounds like fun. So [00:20:00] someone’s listening to this and they’re thinking, I wanna do that. I wanna go do that, but I’m really scared about my finances. What’s the practical first steps she should take?
Katrina: Yeah, I mean, first of all, know what your number is. Focus on the facts. A lot of times it feels overwhelming. It feels too expensive, too far away, too scary. Like what would your version of an ideal break cost you. That’s really important because once you start with that, if it’s really high and you’re like, I’ll never get there, you can walk it back down.
You can say, okay, well I would love to do six months. That is not gonna happen, but what would a three month break look like? Or you know, I thought I wanted to travel Europe. I. But it’s really expensive, but maybe I could make this work in Southeast Asia. And so there are ways that you can sort of like narrow in, but you gotta start with actually knowing that number and also understanding your finances, right?
Knowing exactly how much money you have access to, and then figuring out where the gap is between what you have and what you think you need to take [00:21:00] this break. And understanding like your monthly expenses and those ongoing expenses. So I think having like a factual sort of snapshot of those key indicators.
That’s critical. And number two is be able to articulate the purpose and the themes for the break. Because when you can back to the why, right? Like Maggie mentioned, like having a really strong compelling why will absolutely unlock creativity, ingenuity, and resourcefulness. And so you’ve got to connect to why would I even take this break?
And what would be the three to four things like pillars, themes that I would focus on to fulfill the purpose. And when you have that picture, suddenly you see the bigger deal that is like really at stake for you taking this break. And it’s like, oh yeah, like I gotta make this happen. And so it can really help you know, kind of like calm some of the fears.
I won’t say all of them, but it can really start to like bring a clear picture of what would make it worth it. Right?
Maggie: So how did you start to guesstimate how much your journey might [00:22:00] cost you with? I mean, if you go to Thailand, that’s gonna be very different than if you go to the south of France or something like that, you know? Or if you’re going. All these flights versus just driving in a car around the United States.
So how did you start making that plan or guesstimating the cost? Because everything could be all over the place.
Katrina: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, even my clients have like very different types of breaks. Some stay at home, some have partners who can like, contribute to the household. Some of my clients are breadwinners and so like, it looks very different for the family when they’re not working. So there are all different ways to do it, but for me.
You know what I did and what I recommend, I broke it into chunks. So to your point, you know I’m doing a road trip. Okay? I’m doing a road trip through the us I have friends, but I also am gonna have to do some hotels. So I’m mapping out my stay and I’m trying to guess like, okay, if I’m doing a big circle about what percentage of the nights would be with someone that would just host me versus on my own for hotels.
Then I’m setting a budget for that, right? I’m saying I don’t wanna spend more than $75 a night on a hotel on average. And then [00:23:00] I’m gonna track that and sometimes I can spend more, but then sometimes I’ve gotta use points to spend less, right? And kind of make that average work. And then when I’m going to travel, I’m doing Europe as an estimate, and then I’m doing Southeast Asia as an estimate.
And I did South America as its own estimate, right? So buckets of time, Europe, probably two months. What do I think the main things, travel, lodging, food, entertainment, what do I think those things are gonna cost me? Same thing for Southeast Asia, right? I did book a ticket to, to Southeast Asia using points, which really helped reduce some of that cost as well.
I think it was 80,000 points I used on Delta to get there, but that was really wonderful that I could do that. And then I was at home for months of my break and that was a very different financial picture. My mom was like you can keep, I sold most of my things. I had a Toyota Corolla and what would fit in that car I brought with me, so I just shoved it into a closet.
Mom was like, you can come home, you can hang out here. I use that time to reflect, decompress, be at home for the holidays, and so financially like that was a really great time. Right Then. It’s just my life [00:24:00] insurance, my car insurance, like it’s. The very basic maintenance things, but it wasn’t the added expenses.
And so I basically broke it up into these different portions where the cost would be really different, or, or really variable from one another. And I just tried to estimate for the length of time, like what I thought that picture looked like, and then I just would round up to the nearest, you know, 1000, 2000 and then I added a buffer in case I was wrong, right.
In case I was off on something.
Maggie: The key is the buffer.
Dr. Barb: Did you hit your target?
Katrina: I did, that is how my 12 month break turned into a 20 month break. I was eight months in and I was tracking what I was spending in my little spreadsheet, and I was like, holy crap, I have so much money left. Like, I thought I was gonna be close to broke right now. And then I was like, what do I do with this?
Do I pay off my loans? Do I go back to work? Do I like, I don’t. And then I was like. I’m just gonna keep traveling. And then I did and it turned into 20 months and I do not regret it, you know? But that was why I got to turn a 12 month break into a 20 month break is because I was doing such a good job.
Like I overestimated and I was just becoming really good with spending [00:25:00] money doing things I wanted, but like being very thoughtful about where it was spending my money.
Maggie: It’s not very often we overestimate and spend less. So that’s such a nice turn of events right there.
Katrina: Yeah. Plot twist in a good way.
Maggie: So what does kind of a career break reveal about how a woman values herself and not just her paycheck? Because I feel like you just learned so much about you and have so much growth personally.
Katrina: I mean, I definitely did. It was life changing, and I think that is always my goal for anyone that comes in contact with me, whether they work with me or just happen to like be in my world. I want them to see it as an opportunity to change their life for the better. I think what it signals, right, when a woman is like, I’m ready to like do this thing.
Like what am I signaling instead of thinking about the negative that people associate, like, I’m irresponsible or I’m just throwing it all away. I think it’s the opposite. I think that it’s signaling. I prioritize my own wellbeing. It’s like a middle finger to the status quo that says, as a woman, [00:26:00] everyone else comes first.
Like, I come last. Does everybody else have what they need before I focus on myself? Like this is about you prioritizing your wellbeing. It’s about saying and demonstrating, Hey, I’m worth an investment. Where the ROI is about who I become and how I experience my life versus some like financial return on paper.
You know, like those are the only ones that get to make sense. Is it gonna boost my career immediately or is it gonna like return my finances? It’s like, yeah, but also me, like my wellbeing, my happiness, my fulfillment. And I think it’s also a symbol of believing in your own potential. You have to believe like I did, right.
That I have the tools I need to come back even better because I see the value of what I have created and what I’ve done for other people and other companies, and I believe in the potential that I can be even more. And that pouring into myself and getting really freaking excited about my life and getting my spark back and doing some stuff and resting and recovering, like the potential of who that version of [00:27:00] me is, is even bigger and better
Dr. Barb: I love that. Giving the finger to the status quo. Good for you.
Yeah,
Maggie: And I’ve gotta ask, how much of this travel did you do alone?
Because I feel like that’s a big thing for women is like that’s a big step, is like doing an alone trip. A lot of people say like this is the first time I’ve been outta the country by myself or doing it by myself. Which I think is another even added just growth and value of like, I could be independent.
I can take myself out to dinner, I don’t meet these others and I can meet people. Right.
Katrina: Absolutely. I had only, I did study abroad my last semester in business school in Barcelona, but you know, you’re with a cohort of people and a bunch of other students and so you’re doing things with them, even like the traveling to other countries in Europe, within Europe you’re doing it with them.
I had only taken one trip by myself. And that was getting from Barcelona to Belgium, and traveling in Belgium for like a long weekend and then, and I think in Brussels and then coming back. That was it before I took my break. So I absorbed at that time Instagram really wasn’t a thing.
There weren’t like vlogs and things like that. [00:28:00] It was basically travel blogs and books. And so I was reading, reading, reading and just absorbing all this information to psych myself up and feel like I was packing and preparing as best I could. But it was really scary and really hard. Whenever I thought about doing it as a solo female travel.
But I just knew I didn’t, again, want that to be, I didn’t want fear to be a thing that stopped me from living the life I wanted and getting to experience what I really wanted to experience in life. And it was life changing. So I did have a boyfriend at that time. He came with me on the road trip through the us, which is where we’re both from.
So that didn’t feel so hard, for me, but then we were apart. He did come visit me for a couple of weeks in Argentina. But outside of that, when I was living in Argentina, when I was in Columbia, when I went to Europe, when I spent four months in Southeast Asia, like all of that was solo me by myself, I do have a lot of clients, even like solo females who do travel. But I’m finding that for a lot of people, the version of a break that they want and need today involves some travel, but it’s also some [00:29:00] downtime. It’s decompression. It’s not all just like this one way ticket to go around the world and like backpack your way around.
It’s like, I wanna go somewhere and be in a different environment that like brings me alive and like feels fun and just really switches up the mindset and the routine that I’ve been in. But then I also wanna come home and I wanna like. Take a course on this. I wanna do a Pilates like class. I wanna go to the pottery studio.
I wanna have community. I wanna spend time with people I care about. And so I’m finding it’s oftentimes a mix of those things for a lot of people that I’m working with today.
Maggie: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense is sometimes we just don’t even relax at home. You know? I know some people they’re like, finally I could like maybe do that project I’ve been thinking about or cook a meal that I’ve been wanting to try or just something relaxing. You know? It can’t always be go, go, go.
Dr. Barb: Mm-hmm. For sure. Your story is really amazing. And tell us a little bit about the coaching that you do.
Katrina: Yeah, well, I’m a certified life coach. I just believe that breaks are catalyst for a better life. They’re like a portal, right? The break itself won’t change your life, but who you get to [00:30:00] become through that experience can really change everything.
And so I work with people in a one-on-one way when they want their handheld and they wanna do some really deep, reflective work about who am I now and how do I design this break so that it gives me everything I need. To come out of it on the other side, really excited, maybe even rethinking how life and work fit together.
And then I also am a co-founder of the Break Space community, which is a place where it’s a global community where people come together whether they’re thinking about a break, planning a break, or actually on a break, and they get to see each other’s little faces on the screen and share best practices.
But I have found there’s nothing quite like seeing like 30 other human’s faces on the screen that are in the exact same place that you’re at when you’re in this. Very unconventional, sort of like scary, exciting place of wanting to take a break. And so I think it’s really important to have a sense of community to be able to wrap around that.
So yeah, those are the two ways that I help people on the journey. In addition to having a book and a podcast all about like nerding out about all things career break.
Maggie:[00:31:00] I love it. And so what’s your kind of sta is this just then your full-time gig now and you do your nomad as well now? So like traveling has now become the career.
Katrina: Yeah, I’m like a slow mad. I just sort of wander around. A lot of times it might be even work related where I’m just sort of like, Hey, there’s something to speak at, or like something to do over here. So I’ll just extend my trip to California. I’ll see my friends in Seattle, like that kind of thing.
But yeah, I’ve been doing this full time since 2020, and it’s been really amazing and it’s really like grown. I mean, it was, I gotta be honest, it was really crazy and out there to be talking about sabbaticals and career breaks in like 2017. I don’t even know how I had the courage to do it, but like it is so much more of a thing now than it, than it ever was and I just see it continuing to grow.
But yeah, I do this full time. I love it. I’m super passionate about it. And then I do travel sometimes for fun, a lot of times for work. But I just kind of move around, roam around.
Maggie: And so where’s the next trip to?
Katrina: Australia. So I’ve never been, I’m like excited to [00:32:00] go, but my business partner, my co-owner of Break Space actually lived in Amsterdam, but she is an Australian citizen, so she and her family moved back to Australia officially. I’ve met her in Amsterdam several times, but I’ve never been to Australia.
And she’s like, okay, well we got a house on the beach. They live on the beach. I mean, across the street from the beach, but like at the beach. And I’m like, oh my God, this is gonna be so good. So we’re gonna do like a work retreat and I’m gonna go out there for a couple weeks and travel around. And it’ll be really fun.
So that happens in about, six weeks. So I’m looking forward to
Maggie: Oh, and do you splurge on like a first class ticket for a long flight like that
Katrina: Oh, Maggie. Okay. So the universe loves me is what I’ve decided.
My sister. Love her. She actually works for a major airline and she decided several years ago that I get to be her companion because she really supports the work I do and the mission I’m on. And so I’ve been her companion for like six years, and so I actually will get to fly to Australia.
I will have to fly standby, but I will get to fly for just the taxes and fees. So I’m guessing that will probably be like [00:33:00] $300 or something, but it will be a very affordable flight.
Maggie: I gotta get a new sister.
Dr. Barb: Or tell your sister, forget this doctor stuff. Go go work for an airline.
Maggie: Yeah. Go work for an airline. I could use some flights. I could be your companion.
Katrina: Well, my sister was a PA so she actually was like a medical professional and she’s just like, I wanna live a life of freedom. And so that’s one of the two jobs. She does some health stuff on the side, like very like eastern meets western med consulting, but she does have the airline job for the flight benefits.
I’m like, thank you
Maggie: Ugh,
those are benefits for
sure.
Dr. Barb: here’s a mom question. How much does your mom worry about you?
Katrina: Oh my gosh. My mom has like a worry track that I don’t think I could ever fully mute. But her level of worry, I mean, ’cause I started my career break in 2013, so I’ve sort of like inoculated her and sort of like numbed her senses. I’ve like worn her down. So after 13 years. You know, she’s just like, please tell me where you’re going.
And then she’s like, okay, please tell me when you think you’ll be back. But I would say her worry, like if it was a radio dial, was like at a 10 right when I was traveling [00:34:00] alone for the first time, 10. And then over time, like every year it comes down like a half a notch to a notch. So she’s probably like a four to a five right now.
Dr. Barb: Okay.
Maggie: such a mom
question.
Dr. Barb: It is, but I get it. I mean, you’ll get it someday maybe. I don’t know.
Maggie: So Katrina, this has been so much fun, but there is a question we like to ask all of our guests. And so after building your entire career around helping women take intentional breaks, what does financial freedom mean to you now?
Katrina: Yeah, it absolutely means not letting money stand between me and my dreams, self care and my biggest desires, right? So being able to have a financial situation where I don’t let money be the thing that stops me from living the life that I wanna live. I’m a good steward of my money, and I also believe in my resilience and ability to make more and figure it out.
And so for me, like having achieved financial freedom and like encouraging my clients to go for that, it’s like what do you need your life to look like? So that money is not the thing that holds you back from your [00:35:00] life.
Maggie: I preach it, girl. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing the story and sharing your expertise. I thought it was very inspirational. I know our community’s gonna love it and I just think this is exactly what you said. You know, women put everybody else first and so I think this is a great opportunity for them to put their selves first and also not wait until we’re 65, 70, 75 to do these things, but do it when we are capable and we’re young and, it’s just such a different experience I think at that time.
Not like I’m 65 yet. I’ll let you know when I get there, but we appreciate it, Katrina. This has been awesome.
Dr. Barb: Yeah, it’s been fun. And we’ll put your book and your podcast and all your links in the show notes so everyone can get ahold of you and, keep on doing what you’re doing. And I hope women listening out there step out on that skinny limb where you’re a little bit scared, but talk to Katrina and live the life of your dreams.
Maggie: Until next time, be financially fearless.
Outro: You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. [00:36:00] Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless.
The Truth About Franchising- Real Money and Real Risk with Meg Schmitz
Franchising might be the most overlooked path to financial freedom.
This week, we’re joined by Meg Schmitz, a franchise consultant, business owner, and investor who has spent decades helping people build scalable businesses. From owning five Great Clips locations to becoming a single parent with no financial support, Meg shares exactly how she took control of her financial future and never looked back.
Meg opens up about the moment she realized she had to step up as the decision-maker in her business, how she built confidence through hard choices, and why so many women underestimate what they’re capable of.
We also dive into the real truth about franchising. Not the myths. Not the noise. The actual opportunities available and how to approach them strategically.
Meg reminds us that confidence isn’t something you’re born with. It’s built through action, decisions, and learning as you go. Join us for next week’s Money Talks “Franchising 101- Understanding this Model as a Business Investment”. Click here to registerfor FREE and bring your questions!
Have questions? Click this to check out our expert Q&A for tips from industry experts, tailored to help women address their most common financial concerns.
Subscribe to our newsletter to receive financial tips delivered weekly here!
Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
[00:00:00]
Maggie: All right, mom. Since your family ownaed a seven 11, were you ever maybe I’ll own a franchise someday?
Dr. Barb: No.
Maggie: Hard? No
Dr. Barb: and I think that was because it was not work I wanted to do. In my life. So a lot of it was customer service. Of course at that time it was from seven to 11. Now they’re 24 hours, and it was 365 days a year. So there was no days off. And my mom would close on Christmas, so we could have Christmas together, but that was only for a short time.
And it was hard work because of the element of it being a customer service base. I could see if it was something more manageable. Running something like air conditioning and heating where, you have your times where you schedule people to go, people who are expert to do that work.
So you’re more behind the scenes, more administrative, you’re running the business. Whereas when we were in the seven 11, we were really. Roll up your sleeves. You’re working in the [00:01:00] business.
Maggie: That’s why your dad bought it is ’cause he had all the employees.
Dr. Barb: I know.
Maggie: Were you there at all, like when he bought it or sold it? Were you part of that?
Dr. Barb: I was very young when he bought it. I think it was only like in fourth grade. But it did my mother ran it and we. Worked with our siblings and we had a, I think it taught me a really good work ethic because even when we were in grade school, we all had. Tasks to do and jobs to do.
And we all had we could work a cash register, we could stock shelves and all of that. I worked with my siblings. We have some very funny stories from working there together. We were known throughout the neighborhood as a family business there. I think they did well in the business, but it got to the point where it was just, too much work that, some of the sibs were moving on to college and things like that, and so my mom sold the business.
Maggie: Whenever you guys all get together, there’s always new funny stories about the seven 11. Like one of ’em was like [00:02:00] asked a customer if they’re gonna pay for the orange that they put in their pocket. Like really just calling them out. Or one, like you guys answered the phone in a goofy way, but it was your mom on the other line.
And she was like, you better not be answering it like that.
Dr. Barb: I know we had some fun there and yeah, as young, children almost grade school, high school and getting into college, we had a lot of responsibility there. And yeah, my brother called out someone who had stuck some fruit in his pocket and an older gentleman that had gone to our store for a long time.
And I looked at my brother like, how could you say that to him? And then the guy pulled the fruit out of his pocket. He did steal it. It was always something.
Maggie: But you were really on like more of the boots on the ground and where I guess, mom and dad typically owned it, operated it. Do you know the books and things like that where you would see the profits?
Dr. Barb: Yes, exactly. But there’s it’s come a long way. Franchising, I believe. There’s so many other opportunities out there that I haven’t even thought of, and I was so glad to have Meg on our podcast because she just [00:03:00] showed how she owned so many franchises. I won’t say which one it was, but that she didn’t have any expertise in the franchise service.
And she was divorced raising a young child and she was running several of them. And the funny thing was is her son didn’t even know she was working ’cause she was always there for him, which is pretty amazing.
Maggie: I think there’s more places I go that are franchises that like I don’t even realize. And so every time we have, we’ve had a couple different franchising conversations now, and every time I’m like, so in more intrigued and I’m like, maybe this is the phase two of my journey. You know what I mean? It just seems so interesting and it does seem, I don’t wanna use the word easier, but like it’s nice to walk in with some SOPs in place and having a team behind you who’s done this before and knows it’s successful and if you do it the right way, so it’s just such a fun opportunity. ’cause you’re still the boss, which we’d love to be the boss. But you [00:04:00] have a team still there to support you. So I’m excited that we had Meg on today to share more about franchising.
And I would love if any of our audience would write in, if they own a franchise. ’cause I’m curious like. How many franchise owners are out there in our community?
Dr. Barb: Yeah,
Maggie: so should we get started?
Dr. Barb: let’s do it.
Maggie: Meg, welcome to Women and Money. The shit we don’t talk about. I know we already got talking before we even started this podcast. So much good energy. So before we dive into all of that, can you share a little bit about who you are and the work that you’re doing?
Meg: Sure. The nuts and bolts of it is I am now 63. I have been a business owner. For decades, it was my husband at the time went to a franchise expo. I think I was 28. And he invested in a concept called Great Clips. Knew nothing about it, it doesn’t really matter, but he’s a shiny, sparkly kind of a guy.
And he quit after our first location got open. I’m a terrier and so women and money, I’m a terrier. Do not put my money [00:05:00] on the line. And think that I’m just gonna cower and back off. So that was a, an early lesson for me in needing to lean in and take control. We went from a single location, bought a second one, opened a third one, got divorced.
No alimony, no child support. Good luck with that. And so I said, okay, that’s fine. I’ll take ’em. I opened two more. Someone made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. I jumped the fence and went over to the franchise consulting side so that I can help people. And many of them are women who are looking for a diversification strategy.
So women with confidence people who are really looking for that safety net in their financial future. So that’s the world that I live in. I am now remarried and my husband and I have I lose count how many businesses that we have. And so I’m an employer, business owner, angel investor pretty involved human being in the world of business.
Dr. Barb: Wait, so how many Great Clips did you have?
Meg: Five.
Maggie:[00:06:00] and do you know anything about hair?
Meg: so beautiful thing about franchising is that they want people, franchise companies want people who can run a business. The role of the owner is more or less to hire the industry expert. And let them run the day-to-day of it. So, I got to five locations and there was an owner in the market who was having trouble finding real estate.
And so he cash on the barrel hu and he made me a seven figure offer and I took it.
Dr. Barb: Wow. So he bought all of them.
Meg: That was 2003. That was 2003. So that was a long time ago. I started the consulting side of things in 2002, so I was a single parent at that point. I have one son who’s now 35 and got a lot of great stories about his perspective on he, he’s so funny. After he graduated from college, he said, I know this is gonna sound really crazy, mom, but I thought you were just a divorced single stay at home mom
’cause you were there when I got on the bus [00:07:00] and you were there when I got off the bus.
Case in point for owning a business that doesn’t suck you in and make you do the work. I had an organization at that point of people who were quite capable and I managed the overview and that allowed me to be a flexible parent to parent my kid.
Maggie: I am like so impressed on so many areas already. First of all, I love that you opened up with your age because I think women just need to share their age and own it more. Like, I did all these things and then no grass is grown under your feet and your son doesn’t even know that you’re business owner running another business, doing all these things.
You’re not like running around frazzled. You’re just like, duh, that’s it. I’ve got people working for me. I mean, boss move right there.
Meg: Thank you. It took time to get the confidence and I think, we’ll get to that, particularly for your audience. It’s not like I fell off the back of a truck and I was born confident. I wasn’t at all. In fact, I struggled for a long time with. Anorexia, which is kind of how invisible can I be?
And worked my way out of that one as well. So challenges are really [00:08:00] just there to help us do better.
Maggie: Let’s dive into that while we’re here. Is like how did you build this confidence? I know it’s step by step and it’s kind of building blocks, right? It’s not like an all or nothing thing. And so what started building this confidence for you?
Meg: Number one, is I grew up in a household that was pretty affluent and and the conversation around money didn’t happen easily or naturally. And my mom is funny now, she’s, oh, Meg, you talk about money all the time. Yeah, because money is a tool. Money enables us to do so much more. So anyway, how did I start building The confidence was number one, I had to get away from my brother.
He was, he still is a toxic human being. And that formulated a lot of my self-esteem around being a woman being a girl. And so it was after, getting married, I did not marry the right person which a lot of underconfident women fall into that trap of marrying prematurely before they, we really know ourselves.
So what helped me a lot [00:09:00] was owning this business that my ex-husband didn’t. embrace the female persona. He didn’t embrace the creative side of the business, and so he immediately wanted to back away and I’m territorial. I’m about money. I was not going to. Lose. I was gonna win. So I started to realize just how type a and competitive I can be.
And so once I really leaned into it and started to understand where the problems in the business were that both were kind of like, Hey, it’s a franchise. Well, it’ll all get sorted out. Hear no evil. See no evil. It’ll all work out. But you’re an independent business owner. And there are decisions that needed to be made.
And one of the hardest decisions that was really formative for me is we were losing money handover fest and for an extended period of time. Now this goes way back, we didn’t have a security system. We, the point of sale software was pretty minuscule at that [00:10:00] point, but I knew that money was missing and as I figured out what was going on, it was my manager and one of my receptionists.
And they were a hundred dollars. A hundred with a drawer would be short by a lot of money. And so I called the police after figuring out who was involved, and the gentleman said, you have two choices. You can let it go or you can do something about it. I said, well, I need to do something about it. He said, all right, I’ll send over a squad car.
Like, oh my God, really? And that’s when it all became super real that. I own the business, I’m the lead dog. If I don’t make a decision, then the inmates are gonna roll the roost and from that day forward it, I pulled on my big girl pants and marched on forward. And so the confidence that comes from something that’s scary is something that, [00:11:00] that we all have to understand happens in life and you can avoid it.
My ex-husband wanted to avoid it and I said, no, it needs to be done.
Maggie: You are not a doormat where they’re not gonna walk all over you and take your money,
Meg: and if you don’t pay attention to it,
if you don’t know what your KPIs are, numbers don’t lie.
Dr. Barb: Love it. Right? You gotta stand up and it’s kind of roles like, this is my role, I’m the owner. I need to make a decision here. I need to take charge. It’s gonna be embarrassing and feel awkward and uncomfortable for all of us, but this is the truth. This is what part of being a business owner is.
Meg: And I wanted to be nice.
Dr. Barb: We all wanna be nice and that doesn’t get us anywhere.
Maggie: the biggest thing I am trying to learn as a business owner. I’m like, I’m the owner. I can’t always be nice and. Let people walk over and it’s hard. It’s hard.
Meg: And that’s the lonely part of being a business owner. It’s easier in franchising because you’ve got a network of other owners who are [00:12:00] waving the same flag. We’re all pulling the same rope and so there’s a network of people who have a shared experience. But yes, being an entrepreneur is hard.
And I was a keynote speaker for an event about a year and a half ago, and after I came off stage, woman, and I always talk about my age because I think it’s important to, own it. And this younger woman came, it was a conference, four female entrepreneurs. So many great experiences and comments that I have to share with you about that experience.
But she came up to me and she said, I don’t know how you still, where do you have the energy? I get two or three fires in a day and I’m done. Like, girl, you gotta change your outlook towards fires because you own it and the buck stops with you. And if you’re not willing to make the decisions then you can expect that your business will not thrive.
Dr. Barb: Yeah.
Maggie: when did you wanna start making this transition from owning franchises to kind of, consulting and helping other people [00:13:00] get into the franchise space or grow their franchise?
Meg: Yeah. the gentleman who was the vice president of franchise development at Great Clipse he was bringing people to the market. Now I was in Chicago. The organization supported cooperatives in the marketplace, so I was the co-op president. I was on this, that, and the other committee, or started committees.
And so, Jeff Elgin is his name, Jeff was bringing new candidates for Great Clips to me to help interview them and see if they would be an appropriate fit for the franchise. And he more or less tapped me on the shoulder one day. He said, I am outta here. I’m tired of meeting quotas. I’m tired of people fogging up mirrors and writing checks, who then are not appropriate for the business.
I wanna do this the right way. So I’m starting this company called Franchise. It’s only gonna be people who have franchise experience. Now, I also have a degree in counseling, so it makes me really even more qualified because this [00:14:00] is the role that I play is like an executive recruiter
Dr. Barb: Yes.
Meg: in the world of franchising.
So I’m not a salesperson. I am, I’m a navigator. And so it was easy for me to say. Fearlessly really fearlessly this role is perfectly suited to me. I can’t wait. And he was wise, he said, listen, you’re a single parent. Your son is young. Sell your businesses first. and that’s an important element too, is when you’re ready to mentally get out, you need to prepare your business for sale.
Dr. Barb: Yes,
preach.
Meg: I don’t know how long it took for me to really get organized. I ran clean. I was all above board. I didn’t have any skeletons in the closet that I had to go back and fix. So it was pretty easy for me to get my books together. I had had the idea in mind for a while that, I didn’t have the passion to continue to grow the organization.
So I was in a [00:15:00] way, really ready he got me at the right time where I’d already been thinking about it, about leaving, and then he gave me this opportunity that now I’ve been with franchise for about 25 years.
Dr. Barb: And you’re still doing that today?
Meg: I love it. Yes,
Dr. Barb: So tell me is it just for Great Clips
Meg: no. No, we at franchise, so we have a portfolio of companies kind of like a, a wealth manager.
Dr. Barb: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Meg: We don’t represent everybody ’cause there are a lot of bad franchises. There are a lot of great ones who can do it on their own or have the internal mechanisms. So our portfolio of companies is about, it’s more than 300 companies right now.
Dr. Barb: Mm-hmm.
Meg: And it’s all across the board. It’s absolutely not food. I think that’s the smallest component proportion of businesses in our portfolio. People n naturally think about that, but
Maggie: That’s
like the first ones that come to mind are subway, dunkins, [00:16:00] McDonald’s. Yeah.
Dr. Barb: Franchisor.
Meg: They may be, but well, worldwide, they have more locations open, but they do their own development. And kind of an interesting thing that people don’t think about is there’s a lot of talk right now about I wanna buy revenue. I wanna buy an existing business. Well, you know what everybody does.
Absolutely everybody wants. That’s the the Holy Grail. Well, can I do it with a franchise? Like the best way to get to buy me out at Great Clips was for someone internally who is already a franchisee because then on the inside we can, we know what’s for sale. We know who’s Struggl.
Dr. Barb: right.
Meg: We know who wants to exit, and that’s the easiest transaction for a franchisor to approve is to somebody who’s already known entity.
So, anyway, long story short franchise represents many, many different industries and very, very few are in the world of food.
Dr. Barb: Got it. So give me a [00:17:00] ballpark of what it costs to purchase a franchise today.
Meg: There’s a huge range. And so, I would say if you want, if an individual wants to make real money, six figures not walking around. Money, not these vending machines, they’ll give you walking around money.
Dr. Barb: Yeah.
Meg: But they’re also very easy to break into and steal from. So, for people who want real money, you’re going to invest six figures and it’s gonna start with a one.
I’ve got companies that are easily a couple million dollars in build out, and so you’re gonna need to have a lot of money at the, at the top end. But the sweet spot for me is really that half a million and less. For people who then want to scale into multiple locations, multiple trucks, they’re not all brick and mortar businesses, like a great clips.
You go to the door, pull it open. You know why they’re there, you know why you’re there. And they know why you’re there is to get a haircut. You don’t [00:18:00] take your home to get new windows. They come to you for your roof, for your fence. And so there are a lot of different opportunities in that half a million and under.
So that people can get in at an, and I’m gonna say affordable because people with money wanna make more money. And so it’s affordable for them to make a six figure investment. And maybe they’re getting a loan, maybe they’re using home equity to fund the startup. And so I work really closely with people to figure out what’s your end goal and how much money do you want to make so that we can right size the investment.
Dr. Barb: Got it. And so do you work with the SBA? I mean, where
do they get the money from typically?
Meg: There are a lot of different financial levers, and I’m not the expert on that. I have a number of different resources that I refer my candidates to so that the information I’m collecting is really at a very high level. What are your assets? What are your liabilities? What’s your credit score? But it when it comes to borrowing the money, [00:19:00] usually my people have already been through.
I would say the front half of their research and have an idea then money in, money out. What does that scalability look like? Okay, well then what’s your personal net worth and how much can be leveraged? So I’ve got funding companies that will walk them through what their real strategies are and how to stack those strategies so that they get the most value for their net worth.
Dr. Barb: Got it.
Maggie: I saw a post recently about how do you re-channel debt, debt being bad and things like that. And debt helps you become rich. The richest people carry debt. And I think this is just such a great example of how debt can be helpful in the long term when you know your goals. And I just kind of wanted to highlight that as debt has such a bad wrap, this is something I’m trying to wrap my head around too, is like the richest people carry debt. Like debt free can’t be the goal.
And I just think this is a great example.
Meg: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought it up, Maggie, because that was a learning lesson for [00:20:00] me. I grew up in a conservative household. My financial upbringing. Was absolutely risk averse, and I had that mentality, that debt was bad. Well, let’s face it, if you’re gonna buy a car or you’re going to buy a home, probably you’re going to get a loan that’s debt.
Well, what people don’t recognize, realize is that particularly in business. That debt gives you tax advantages that save you and I’m, I am not avoiding taxes, but why pay more taxes when there are legitimate strategies that keep more money in your business and in your personal account. And so as Pete, my husband and I have been growing.
Our own organization. Absolutely. Debt and case in point, and it’s so counterintuitive for people, but our entire 2024 tax bill was eradicated because one of our businesses was losing money [00:21:00] and it wasn’t losing money so much as it was a brand new business. It just hadn’t taken off yet. So that was a direct write off we, and that would’ve been a pretty significant tax bill in 2024, completely gone.
Because we had business debt that offset our personal finances.
Maggie: Yeah, I love it. It’s a great example of just, you need that and it, it does help you grow. And so what’s one of like the biggest myths people believe about franchising that you kind of wanna demystify.
Meg: There are a lot of words that we use that are really very subjective. But some of the biggest ones in franchising is that it’s gonna cost me a million bucks. It’s food, but it’s gonna be a business that’s high turnover and a pain in the rear.
Well, no, that, that’s why I want people to work with me, because then I can eradicate some of those common misperceptions and they’re rampant out there. So the role that I have is really a lot of educating [00:22:00] people about what you believe is true is probably not true, but let’s get to the fact.
Of the matter. Go ahead and ask anything that you think, you believe, and let’s get to the bottom of it so that you can put those concerns aside. Yes, there, there are bad franchises. Yes, there are people who lose a lot of money, but if you go about it wisely and properly invest your money, you’re far more likely to make a lot more of it than to lose a lot of it.
Maggie: And that’s why it’s so great to have those people on your team, like you who’ve done it before, who know what to look for. I mean, it’s like investing. You could DIY it and see how well it goes. And I’m not saying it’s gonna go bad, it might go great. You never know you don’t know what you don’t know though.
And so if you have someone like Meg in your corner. Someone who’s had a franchise, it’s like, ah I should ask this. I should know about this. This is something that I should really look at every month. I mean, those are things ’cause you don’t know what you don’t know, especially in this new venture.
Meg: Yeah, owning a business. Well, as you know, being an entrepreneur, [00:23:00] being a solopreneur is super hard and. Bless our family and friends, but a lot of them are black cloud, sky is falling. Oh my God. And what they’re doing is foisting their fears. They’re afraid for you. Well, the beautiful thing about being part of a franchise is there are a whole lot of other people out there doing exactly the same thing.
And If you surround yourself with the people who’ve been successful, learn from their stumbles and falls, we’re all so willing to help The next guy, the next gal. Not make the same mistakes that we have. And so we’re, I’m seeing a lot of early success, much, much faster than say my own great clips way back when.
Yep. There are a lot of individuals who are getting into business and they’re becoming cash flow positive much faster because franchises have gotten a lot smarter.
Dr. Barb: Yeah.
Maggie: Do you find that more people are looking at franchises right now and [00:24:00] that popularity of like purchasing franchises is growing? Yeah. So why do you think, why do you think this is I felt like, and this is totally talking outta my butt, but like I felt like this was like an early two thousands, like was a big franchise thing.
But it’s still really growing this whole opportunity.
Some reason I like thought it was like this early 2000 surge of like franchising, but maybe that was just like when Subway was coming up everywhere.
Meg: It has been year over year, 2020. Of course, everything got set as skew and people were afraid. Just like nine 11 people were afraid, and then we started to come out of it. 2021 at FranChoice was a. Our best year ever. And so the company was founded in the year 2000, so our 21st year Best year ever. 2022.
Best year ever. 2023. Best year ever. And yes, so year over year. And the reasons there, there are a number of reasons for that. One is that [00:25:00] our consultant base. Still is primarily people who come from the world of franchising. We understand the jargon. We understand implementation execution, following the secret sauce.
So our consultant base, like me were smarter and better when it comes to franchise companies. We lost no companies from our portfolio in the pandemic. None of ’em rolled up and blew away and went out of our portfolio. They. They doubled down for technology. They doubled down for everything that we were all talking about back then, the personal protective equipment and sanitation and touchless.
The Implementation more and more of artificial intelligence. It’s never gonna replace a human. I don’t know if you know Mike Rowe and Dirty Jobs. If you’ve got a toilet and it’s overflowing, artificial intelligence is never gonna wipe that out. And so year over year, and when I say it’s the best year [00:26:00] ever, it’s the number of placements that we have had as a company.
So year over year, we have more placements at franchise than all the other consultant or broker groups put together.
Where this is really coming from is number one, accessibility to real information. If people were to follow me on LinkedIn I’m not a salesperson, I put information out there about w to be invested.
And so we’ve all sorts of of people. Coming out of corporate America, we love a good churn because there are people who don’t want to go back. They don’t like that. And then we’ve also got people who are very comfortable and happy, productive in their career, but they’re looking, maybe they’re, they’ve hit a comfort zone and they want another challenge.
This is a diversification strategy. The stock market and investing your money is very passive. [00:27:00] This is a great way, for example, for people who are in their fifties, sixties, seventies even. I’m working with people that, of that generation who have gas in the tank and they’re not done yet. They would like to do something that feels good and it contributes to their community, but they can monetize it.
So where all this interest is coming from is people who are looking for additional revenue streams.
Dr. Barb: So give us a couple of popular franchises that people are looking at
Meg: And we didn’t even tee this up when I’m doing my webinars, one of the FAQs is Mag, what’s hot? What is hot and franchising right now? I, where should I put my money? I wanna be first in, okay, health, fitness, wellness, beauty. We all know during the pandemic that kids, pets and parents got a lot of money thrown at ’em for an entertainment, education and enrichment.
Okay. Then their home services, if it’s coming in your roof, if it’s coming in your basement, if it’s fire, smoke, [00:28:00] whatever it might be. So home and business services, and then at the very tail end of it is what I would call experiential retail
has become a catchphrase. If people are going out on a date, they wanna go out and do a girl’s night out, whether it’s a meal or an activity.
could be art class, it could be I would even put something like a a I was gonna say Chipotle where you go in, you see the food being prepared you,
so some of it is food, but experiential, like kids and trampoline parks and dog parks.
Dr. Barb: Dog parks. That’s what I wanna open a dog park with a bar. Right Maggie? Like they have in KC
Meg: Yeah. People. Don’t wanna go where it’s stale and boring. They wanna go where they’re, it’s an experience.
Dr. Barb: Yeah.
That’s really great.
Maggie: And so are you seeing a lot of these franchise owners be women? Are you seeing a lot more women in this space? [00:29:00] I wish people could hear your facial expressions. ’cause they’re so good when I ask these questions, but I know the audio does not pick it up.
Meg: I had been amazed a number of years ago when I, so I started in the Chicago area and then as I’ve been with franchise for such a long time, we’re not territory bound so I can work with anybody anywhere in the United States. And so I was finding that there are certain pockets of the country where women are leading the decision on this investment.
And it’s not just single women, but it’s female head of household. Milwaukee was my first eyeopener to how many women were really attracted to franchising because if you think about who does well in franchising, people who like to cook or bake ’cause they’re following a recipe.
People who played on a sports team, ’cause everybody’s got their role. Everybody knows their place on the field, and we all know what the win looks like.
People who are in the military, it’s the same thing. There is a battle plan [00:30:00] and there’s an outcome, and we will leave. No man, we’ll leave no person behind.
So it anybody who has played, say an instrument and had to do a concert, so you’ve been training and practicing and your ultimate goal is to get up there and do your recital. and a lot of those are women.
Maggie: Yeah, it’s fun to see how applicable that is. ’cause I can see somebody who’s like, oh, I’ve been a a musician my whole life. Like I probably shouldn’t own a franchise. It’s like, no, you could fit right in. ’cause so many of those things are applicable and I think. We limit ourselves so much about that, and again, much easier said than done, right?
But we limit ourselves like, oh, well I’ve been a stay at home parent. Great. You’ve been running a household, you’ve been running the boat, you’ve been getting everywhere on time. You’ve been cooking and cleaning and doing all the things. You know how to get it done while still managing the PTO board.
Dr. Barb: I know, right? She’s pretty good.
Meg: This is exactly correct. People will, and it’s men as well, but women [00:31:00] as we know, will diminish themselves and it’s, if I could, if I could get rid of that word, imposter. It drives me. You can tell from my facial expression, my reaction. It drives me nuts because we all are, we were born into this world knowing nothing, and we all got taken home by two people or maybe one who said, I’ve never done this before.
That baby doesn’t know any different.
call yourself an imposter. But this is what we all do. We all learn how to ride a bike. We all learn how to swim. We’ve all done things.
Dr. Barb: that whole imposter syndrome, I think is a theory that’s made up and put on us to make us feel less than because it’s just, it’s not true. We don’t have imposter syndrome. Everybody has a little fear, a little anxiety trying something new. So do men. Men and women. But we try it, right?
Like you said, you have a baby. No one’s ever prepared for that. God knows I wasn’t. [00:32:00] But look. she’s bed and watered and she grew up and she’s good. But you know, exactly, I think that whole imposter syndrome is just a bunch of bull that was made up to put on women. It’s the same thing.
And I’ve read this article and saw speaker on imposter phase. They used to say when women gave bicycle face, because. When women started riding bicycles, which gave them so much more freedom, they would so say you, you shouldn’t ride that bicycle.
’cause it gives you bicycle face, which is kind of like wrinkled or squinted or something like that. That doesn’t make you look good. It’s the same thing. It just, they’re putting labels on us that just are not true. So when people say that about imposter syndrome, I say, Hmm, that’s not true.
Meg: One of my earliest recollections about riding a bike, yes, I fell, didn’t work the first time, but once I got going, you could not get that smile off my face. So bicycle face should really be, Hey, look what I’ve done.
[00:33:00] Which is exactly what we’re doing the first time you follow a recipe and it pull it out of the oven or off the stove and it tastes good.
Well, congratulations. You followed a recipe. You didn’t have to make it up from scratch. And that I could think one of the myths going back to an earlier question that irritates me, is how many people think that owning a franchise is cheating in business.
Cheating. There are whole segments of people out there who will not look at a franchise because somehow they fell under the spell of You are a real business owner if you start it from scratch.
Well, you know how many people have bad business idea? My husband and I do a lot of angel investing. There are a lot of great ideas and bad operators,
Mm-hmm. and so if you want success. Then let’s get over that whole notion that it’s cheating. ’cause I’ll tell you what, when my parents had that opinion as well.
Oh, Maggie. Oh, Maggie Craig Clips is a [00:34:00] chop shop. You’re worth more than that. Don’t you have your own business idea? You graduated from Northwestern, come on. And I had this real heart to heart with parents one day. ‘Cause I was a single parent and my dad said, honey, you really should be going back to get your MBA you.
You’re worth so much more than this. And I said, well Dad, how much do you think I’m worth? Well, six figures, you ought be making at least six figures. I said, well, I am with Great Clips And I did it never cutting hair. I did it by executing a system and being excellent at it.
And so when my dad and I drilled down even further into that, and this is, this had to have been in the. Nineties, probably the late nineties. Sure. ’cause I was divorced at that point, so it would’ve been like 19 98, 99, somewhere in there. And I said, dad, I am making six figures. What if I told you that my take home right now plus owner [00:35:00] benefit my car?
All of my write-offs, again, learning of the tax strategies. I was at more than two 50. And he looked at me with bright eyed just disbelief that with a chop shop haircut, I could be making that kind of money. And so he immediately he was foisting his fears on me. I should be accomplishing more.
So my, my experience with this franchise has essentially given me, and I did go and take some MBA classes. I was acing everything because I learned it boots on
Dr. Barb: The real way. Yes.
Maggie: It was, in theory it was real p and ls,
Meg: It’s really fun when people who are naysayers bring those beliefs and instill them on me, and I can say, you’ve gotta completely wrong.
Maggie: yeah.
And I can see a dad just being like, well, I just wanna make sure you’re taken care of. You’re a single parent. Like, I don’t wanna [00:36:00] have to support you. Like different I can see their own fears, but you’re like, I’m two 50 in the early nineties. That’s, that’s good money. I mean, it’s still good money today, but not as much as it was in the nineties.
Dr. Barb: Yeah,
Meg: Yeah, well, and so a lot of that was not my salary, it wasn’t the distributions. It was also, because I had borrowed from, I’m a big believer and bet on myself, and so I was not afraid to take out a home equity line of credit or borrow against my retirement fund. I’m in my thirties, I’m in my forties.
I’m a heck of a long way from that. So why not take that money and invest it in my business? And so there’s a way to take the money, put it into your business, and then you’re creating a self-directed IRA to get it back out again. And I was taking the maximum amount. Something like $53,000 a year outta my business to put back into a retirement account.
So there are people who say, oh, I don’t want, I’m afraid of losing my retirement. I’m afraid of losing my house. Well, if we do it the right way and you’re invested in the right [00:37:00] business, you’re gonna come out on the other side with a lot of tax benefits as well as, so it, I wanna be clear for anyone who’s listening, I wasn’t just taking two 50 out of the business, but it was the equivalent of salary distribution and then.
Some of the things that people don’t even think about, they are running through their business. Any good tax advisor will tell you what you legitimately can run through your business.
Maggie: And that’s kind of the point, right? It’s not about bringing all the money home, it’s about filling these buckets. So if I don’t have to pay my car bill, if the car’s just kind of written off, sure, I don’t need the cash. You know, like the car’s taken care of. I don’t need the money to come outta my paycheck into retirement if it’s going straight there, sure it doesn’t matter.
You know, all the buckets are still getting filled at the end of the day. if someone’s curious about franchising, what’s the first question they should ask before jumping in, or one of the top questions?
Meg: Meg, can I work with you?
Maggie: Great answer,
Dr. Barb: Amen.
Meg: And so. I’ve been doing this for a long time because it’s not physical, it’s mental, I’m gonna [00:38:00] keep doing it because it brings me joy. I love, okay, so my background my mother is a hospice nurse, and so death and dying is the scariest thing that any of us confront. And so. I took that from my mother.
She used to do public speaking and hold up her palms and say, from lily pad to Lily pad from life to death. Well, I hold up my palms and say to people, what if you could take a leap from where you are onto this other lily pad and you’re gonna stick the landing? You’re gonna be that frog that lands on that lily pad.
You’re not gonna fall in the water. You’re not gonna get eaten by the shark or the bass or whatever else is down there. Let me help you evaluate this in the end. I don’t care if your answer is yes or no. I just want you to have the curiosity to say, yeah I wonder what it would be like to own my own business.
I’m not sure if I’m qualified or ready. Great, let’s have a conversation about that. And then when you are qualified and ready, you’ll have the facts to know.
So don’t do it [00:39:00] alone. It’s, it’s really hard to do it alone.
Dr. Barb: Yeah, for sure. I love this conversation. I just think it opens up a whole new world of opportunity that some women may not even be thinking about. We did have a young woman on here who started, who bought a franchise and it was in heating and air conditioning. Something she knew nothing about, but like you described, she wanted to get out of corporate, of working hard for somebody else and really build her own business up.
And so we support her and promote her all the time because we want to support women owned, women led businesses. This is another opportunity for women to really step into their own power, learn from you Meg, and see that they can run their own. Real life, real business in a way that’s repeatable processes.
It’s been they have, they’ve shown success. That’s why there’s so many of them out there, whether it be a Great clips or any anything else. And I think [00:40:00] this would be a great opportunity for so many women to really take a look at.
Meg: And the other element that is. Rewarding for me is that I’ve been divorced. I’ve been through I’ve stumbled and fallen people. I think, look at successful people and think that somehow we were born with it. I can relate to any fear that anybody is going to bring. I’ve been there and I’ve done it.
If people had any idea, some of the risks that I then got ballsy enough to take that I did not win, I did not win at every decision. A solid resource for people who have fear and concern, because chances are I’ve had that stumble and fall. But if you’re willing to get back up again and say, all right, well that was a learning experience, didn’t kill me.
Let’s go on.
One of my military friends said to me his philosophy is, you know what, Meg, you can quit, but not until tomorrow.
Maggie: That’s a great [00:41:00] one.
Meg: And that’s one of those things that’s in the back of my mind every day is okay. That was hard. Well, tomorrow will probably be easier and it’ll for sure be different.
Maggie: If I got over that, I can get over anything else. Right.
And so there is a question, Meg, we like to ask all of our guests and so, what does financial freedom mean to you?
Meg: Oh gosh. Options,
financial freedom gives me the option to take risks, start more businesses, give more employees opportunity to work for somebody who’s gonna create a great culture. Yeah, financial freedom came at a price. Just like living in the United States comes with a price freedom is not free.
Free. to me and to my husband as well, we keep creating because it, that financial freedom gives us options.
Maggie: Yeah. I love it. Well, thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise and being such a great resource for people who are interested in franchises. ’cause I think [00:42:00] this is a great opportunity. It’s exciting to see that it’s growing and I honestly still can’t get over that. Your son didn’t even think you worked. What great time management, like, I’m still stuck there. So thank you Meg, for coming on and just being the amazing resource that you are.
Meg: Thank you so much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this for some time. And Barb, your episode on my podcast is coming up, so it’s super fun to have the different formats and different points of view, so I really appreciated being invited on, so thank you.
Maggie: until next time, be financially fearless.
Outro: You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to resource for financial experts who know how to [00:43:00] put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless.
Stop Hustling: The Identity Shift That Changes Your Income with Elyse Archer
Your income will never exceed your level of self worth.
That line alone might stop you in your tracks.
This week on Women & Money: The Shit We Don’t Talk About, we’re joined by Elyse Archer @elysearcher, founder of She Sells and Superhuman Selling, and the conversation is one every woman building a business needs to hear.
Elyse shares how trusting her intuition led her to make a bold investment in herself that completely changed the trajectory of her business.Six weeks later, she turned her annual income into her monthly income, but what she discovered along the way might surprise you.
It wasn’t about working harder. It was about identity.
In this episode, Elyse breaks down the inner shifts that actually drive income growth and why protecting your energy, attention, and self belief may be the most powerful business strategy you have.
Inside this conversation we talk about:
✨ Why your income will never exceed your level of self worth
✨ How trusting your intuition can lead to massive breakthroughs
✨ The difference between hustle and working in flow
✨ Why overwhelm is often a mindset pattern you can shift
✨ The identity changes that can unlock bigger opportunities
Want practical strategies to strengthen your business finances? Join next week’s Money Talks, “Business Cashflow Hacks & Funding Sources”.
Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
[00:00:00]
Hello friends. Welcome to Women and Money, the show we don’t talk about. Dr. Barb is not here, so it’s just gonna be me and our guest, Elyse.
In this episode we’re talking about sales and business sales and it’s been an interesting journey being a business owner. Do you ever realize you’re in a flow state and it’s like not when you expected it might happen? I’ve been reading more about this. I heard about it on a different podcast and like sometimes people are in a flow state when they’re like. In a database that would be more of me, like if I’m in an Excel spreadsheet working on something like I’m in a flow state, other people are in a flow state, sometimes at the gym or I know sometimes like a lot of painters will get into a flow state and just be in their zone for hours and you look up and hours have passed and sometimes as business owners.
We’re told so much by everybody else what we should be doing and how it should be done, that we’re not in that flow state anymore. And things just feel so tough. They feel like you’re going upstream. And so this episode with Elyse is a lot of fun because she talks [00:01:00] about business sales, but how to do that from a flow state, how to do that from your feminine energy, how to do that with feeling like that million dollar business owner.
And so. I just think this is a great episaode for all women to listen to, business owner or not saleswoman or not, because we’re always buying, we’re always selling, but we also always wanna find that nice, happy medium that we can just kind of enjoy each aspect of our life. So without telling you more, I’m just gonna get into it.
So let’s get started.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk [00:02:00] about.
Maggie: Elyse, welcome to Women and Money. The shit we don’t talk about. I know we met at the Women in Insurance and Financial Services Conference, WIFS, which have been just such a great partnership and such a great community of women. So we’re excited that we met you there and to have you on the show today.
Maggie: So before we dive in, can you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Elyse: I am so happy to Maggie, thank you for having me. This is really fun. So professionally, I am the founder and CEO of my company, She Sells. And then we also have another brand called Superhuman Selling. And in my personal life, I am married to a full-time medical school student, so we’re going through that journey.
Elyse: We’re third year right now as we record this. I am a mom of three kids, five and under, so life is crazy and full, and I am always learning how to do life and business and integrate. Things together and flow from [00:03:00] podcast recording to homeschooling with my middle one and doing the things.
Elyse: So, you know, I’ll give a little bit of context for the why behind why I do what I do, if that’s helpful. I started she sells over 10 years ago ’cause I had come up in corporate sales and I just felt like there was so much taught in terms of how you had to sell that just felt really gross to me and felt out of integrity and inauthentic. And I found myself in my late twenties, you know, top of the corporate leaderboard, but secretly struggling with panic attacks, anxiety and eating disorder, and not wanting to tell anyone about what I was going through inside. ’cause I really believed in having kind of that persona on the outside of having it all put together.
Elyse: And launched my company. Again, really focused in the sales space, but what I’ll say is over the years, just along with my own personal growth and what I’ve learned the biggest transformations and what actually increases a woman’s earnings potential, it’s [00:04:00] all the inner work, it’s all identity, it’s all how much are you willing to receive, how much are you willing to allow?
Elyse: Learning to integrate feminine and masculine energy. I thought feminine energy was a dirty word for so long in my life. So more than happy to take that wherever you wanna take it. But the thing I’m most passionate about is supporting women in making as much money as they possibly can in a way that feels good to them, so that they can live as the fullest expression of themselves, both professionally and personally, and have it all.
Elyse: That’s what I care about. So please take that wherever you wanna take it. But super passionate about it. Yeah.
Maggie: It’s so good. And sales is hard, right? And so I know right when we started a business, we like hired a sales coach right away. But it is, you know, we hear a lot of, like when financial advisors sell to women, when they were kind of trained, it was like, find a suspect, make ’em a prospect, have one meeting and sell straight to them.
Maggie: And we talk all the time of like, that’s not how women buy. That’s not how women sell. [00:05:00] But it’s not always like this, this gender way. I think everybody needs to have a little bit of that feminine and masculine energy. So I know a lot of people, especially business owners with the economy are thinking, you know, people are just not spending money right now.
Maggie: Is that true or are they just not confident in what they’re selling? Or is there a, you know, the middle of the Venn diagram.
Elyse: Yeah. So I’m gonna say something that might not be popular on this podcast. I don’t pay attention to it. So when people are, are like, oh, no one’s buying because of the economy, obviously with financial advisors, you gotta know, you gotta pay attention. So I’m not disregarding that. But I, I coach clients in all different industries.
Elyse: I coach a lot of advisors. I coach. Coaches, B2B, sales reps, account execs, founders, entrepreneurs. For me personally, I don’t pay attention because I don’t want to create a reason why I cannot be as successful as I want to [00:06:00] be. So I believe I create my own economy even in my own business.
Elyse: I look at our growth over the years, it’s never been impacted by the economy because I, I never say that’s a reason why I can’t sell or grow. And if you look at. In any business or in any industry, in down economies, that’s when the most millionaires are made. People know this. So I think it all has to do with the meaning that you give it.
Elyse: And if you say, oh, it’s a, you know, down economy or this, this and that, I’m not gonna sell as much, well then that’s the experience you’re gonna have because that’s what you’re telling yourself. That’s what you’re programming your subconscious mind to look for, and it’s gonna mirror that back. But if you say.
Elyse: This is when more millionaires are made than ever before, what a great opportunity. Then you’re gonna be one of the people who thrives in a sense. So the bottom line for me was, I would say, obviously with your listeners, you need to know what’s going on. But at the same time, what would it look like to make your own economy in your [00:07:00] business?
Elyse: What would that look like for you? And the advisors that I work with and coach, they thrive and it doesn’t have anything to do with the economy. ’cause they are, they believe in creating their own reality there.
Maggie: I mean, that makes so much sense. It’s like the affirmation that you’re telling yourself, right? And so you will find, you will prove it to be true. And so, you would still argue it’s a great time for people to grow their business, right? I mean, like you said, it’s the time. Yeah. It’s always a great
Maggie: time. Right.
Elyse: Here’s the thing, you decide it’s a great time to grow your business, it’s gonna be a great time to grow your business. I think for me, it’s always a great time to grow my business. I’m always thinking about growth. I’m always thinking about expansion.
Elyse: I’m always thinking about what’s next. Has nothing to do with economy or anything outside of me. I, I really don’t pay attention to it
Elyse: because I.
Elyse: wanna focus on what I want and create that.
Maggie: So when we feel kind of either this overwhelm, this uncertainty, the economy, whatever noise is going on, it seems like women tend to shrink a little bit, lowering their bar, lowering their expectations or overworking, which [00:08:00] is easy to do. So why do we kind of default to this? And please, please tell us how we stop that pattern.
Elyse: Well, I think it really has to do with what you’re paying attention to, which kind of ties in with our past conversation. And I remember there was a time in my own life, in my own business, maybe five years ago. When I had just made the biggest investment I’d ever made in personal coaching and mentorship, it was $50,000.
Elyse: Frankly, I didn’t have the money sitting around. I put it on a credit card that I had this knowing in me. I was like, I have to do this. But it was so uncomfortable. I was so uncomfortable, and it triggered. Every fear I had, I was the breadwinner in our family. It triggered every fear I had about money security, trusting myself.
Elyse: I’m thinking, oh my gosh, did I just make the worst mistake of my life? Did I just put my family in financial jeopardy? And at that time, I remember I was reading a book by a [00:09:00] well-respected New York Times bestselling author about how to manage your money. And everything in the book was telling me that what I had just done was wrong.
Elyse: My intuition had told me very clearly, this is what you need to do. I told my mentor and my coach at the time, I was like, I’m reading this book and I’m panicking. ’cause I’m thinking, oh my gosh, did I just make the mistake? Did I just do the wrong thing? And she said, Elyse, anyone or anything that makes you doubt or question yourself, stop paying attention to it.
Elyse: That was a pivotal moment because it was a moment I took my power back and said, okay, someone can be a New York Times bestselling author. Someone can have a great method that’s respected by a lot of people, and in this moment, in this season of my life, this is not the right material for me to be paying attention to.
Elyse: Not that it couldn’t be down the road, but. I learned at that time the importance of guarding your energy. And I almost, I, I put on blinders and I was like, [00:10:00] okay, my intuition told me to do this. I’m focused. Let’s go. And the second half of that story is prior to making that investment in myself, I’ve been stuck at the same income level for 10 years, constantly struggling with worry, money, limiting beliefs, anxiety, fear.
Elyse: I followed my intuition. I told almost no one I was doing this aside from my husband ’cause I had to use the credit card and, and my mentor in six weeks of following my intuition and doing that. I turned my annual income into my monthly income. I took my business from six to seven figures like that, six weeks after being stuck for 10 years.
Elyse: But if I had paid attention to, number one, if I told people who were gonna plant seeds of doubt, I would’ve probably not done it, and I would’ve freaked out, and I would’ve gone on a different path. If I had read that book and kept reading that book and questioning and spiraling, I wouldn’t have taken the inspired action that I took in that season of, whew, let’s go.
Elyse: That helped me get to where. I got. And [00:11:00] so I would say for anyone who’s listening, who’s like, oh my gosh, I’m hearing this or that outside of me and I’m shrinking, or I notice that I’m questioning myself. Stop it. What are you paying attention to that has you doubting or questioning yourself?
Elyse: Block it out. Your energy, your focus, your attention, it is that important. And when you realize that that is the most valuable asset, that you are the most valuable asset in your business. Not the money, not the degrees or the certifications, it’s you. It’s your energy, it’s your focus. You protect that like it’s your firstborn.
Elyse: You gotta put blinders on and stay focused on where you’re going, what direction you’re heading into. Get rid of anything that makes you doubt or question yourself.
Let’s take a quick pause to hear from this week’s episode sponsor. Lemme ask you something, you’ve built a successful business, but does your financial plan actually support your whole life beyond just your work? Hi, I’m Randall [00:12:00] Franklin with Franklin Wealth Management in Madisonville, Kentucky. I work with female entrepreneurs in business owners like you to create personalized strategies that support your entire life.
Not just your business. Women often face added pressure to balance family work and major financial decisions without clear guidance. Too often it feels like you’re expected to choose between your career and your life. My approach starts by understanding your full picture, both financial and non-financial, so it’s your plan actually works for you.
If you’re ready to take a step back, see the big picture, and get clear on what matters most, let’s start there. You can find the link to schedule a call with me in the show notes. And I would love to help you take that next step with confidence. Now back to our show.
Maggie: So I wanna dive into that a little bit more. And so I’m sure this book told you have all debt paid off, have three to six months in emergency fund. Don’t do this if you can’t pay for it in cash. But as a business owner, you know, you have to spend money to make money. Like it’s always this teetering line, right?
Maggie:[00:13:00] And so how did you learn to trust your gut or trust yourself so well, because I think it’s much easier said than done, and people might say, when you know, you know, but then you have that little voice that’s like, do you know? Do you know? gosh
Elyse: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, totally. I I love that you asked this, Maggie. And it’s funny because the, the core message of my brand, even though on the surface it’s sales, the actual message is to trust yourself. Because that’s. Been my life’s work. And I think that there are so many things that happen over the course of our life that make us not trust ourselves, whether it’s a parent when we’re younger and we’re in those really formative years from zero to seven, especially when we’re really forming our identity and our self-concept.
Elyse: And a parent says something where that makes you question yourself and you’re like, oh, well, maybe I shouldn’t listen. Maybe I’m not right. Or someone, many women myself, including listening to this. Maybe experienced sexual assault or something where you disconnect from your body. Right? We learned it’s [00:14:00] not safe to be in our bodies and we say the only safe place is in my head.
Elyse: And I lived that way for a long time, a really really long time. And what I learned to do this was through the power of amazing female mentors. I had to learn how to reconnect with my body. And that’s not something that we’re taught in business school. It’s certainly
Elyse: not something that we’re taught in corporate selling. So in the process of hiring amazing female mentors and learning how to reconnect with my knowing, my inner knowing, I finally learned how to listen to myself again. And so if you are a woman who says, I don’t know how to trust myself, I don’t know how to listen to myself, then what I would say is as uncomfortable as it may be. You’ve gotta sit down and start asking like, how do I really feel about this? What is my body really telling me at this point? And one of the simple tools, one of the simple things [00:15:00] that I learned to do that has really helped guide me in decision making is to be able to really tune into my body.
Elyse: And let’s say you’ve got a choice of one of Two, it’s either invest in yourself or not, or go on a trip to this conference or not. Close your eyes and imagine that you have both choices in front of you. You imagine taking the first choice, does your body expand or constrict with it? If it expands beautiful, that’s where you’re meant to go.
Elyse: If it constricts, if it tightens, that’s a no for you. Then you do the same thing with the second choice. There’s gonna be one where your body naturally expands and relaxes. We have so much body wisdom, Maggie, and again, I come from a long a history of women and even my mom who told me not too long ago in her life, like she never trusted herself.
Elyse: I picked up on that. I stopped trusting myself. When you learn how to tap into your body wisdom, it will guide you in [00:16:00] business and life in all areas. It’s so powerful.
Maggie: so let’s dive into then, you know, you hired this coach, you followed your intuition and hired this coach that, you know, you put the money on a credit card. Great. And you saw your income in six weeks. Skyrocket.
Maggie: Give us some tips. Give us the secret sauce. You know, like what should we all be doing or what are some small changes we can make?
Maggie: To help the rest of the listeners get there ’cause I think some people think maybe for her or not for me, maybe she had a lot of low hanging fruit, but not for me. It sounds too good to be true.
Elyse: It 100% does. And I recognize that when I say it. ‘ cause when it happened in my own life, I almost didn’t believe it because I had been working so hard for over 10 years to try to make that very thing happen and then to have it happen in six weeks, I was like, wait, something is weird here.
Elyse: They like, it can’t be this
Maggie: It is almost frustrating that it like didn’t happen sooner,
Maggie: right?
Elyse: I love this question, Maggie. I learned so many valuable things through this process. [00:17:00] So I’ll say a couple things. Number one, the question that you asked. What did you do? That’s what everyone wants to know. What do I do? Here’s what I can say is a woman who went through that experience, it is not nearly as much about what I did as about. Who I started to believe myself to be
Elyse: and what I realized, so when we’re talking about money and sales and income, for so long I was a woman who was like a six figure ish earner, but I had bigger aspirations for my life. My husband, when we first got married, he was a night shift respiratory therapist
Elyse: and he was, you know, doing that during COVID, but he had these dreams and these aspirations of going to medical school. We needed both of our incomes at the time, and he couldn’t do that. I also really admired certain people in my industry who I saw speaking on the big stages you know, running [00:18:00] multimillion dollar companies, having really successful podcasts, and yet I would always make them different or special, and I would look at them and say, well, there’s something unique about them.
Elyse: There’s something different about them. Than me and they can do it because this, this, and this kind of everything you just shared, right? Like
Elyse: when we hear these success stories and say, well, they’ve got something different. What I learned in the process, Maggie, was I actually had to humble myself. And I know that may sound strange, but our ego is the thing that tells us well. You’re not as good as them. They’ve got something else, they’ve got some special sauce. You are different. You are unique. You are quote unquote special. Not in a positive way, but in a way of like, well, you can’t do that, but they can.
Elyse: And it was right around that time that a dear friend of mine, who was my podcast co-host at the time, he passed away in his sleep at age 39 and left
Elyse: behind a wife and five kids. Yeah.
Elyse: And I wasn’t that much younger than him, and [00:19:00] I just remember thinking about. How many excuses I was making in my life, how I was making other people special and not me, and how I was telling myself so many stories about why I couldn’t have what I wanted, why I couldn’t go for it. So when I made that decision to just go all in and to start playing full out in my life, I had done what I what. Now call, putting my life on layaway previously where I had said, well, I’ll do that someday, sometime when the timing’s convenient. And I was like, no, I’m done. I’m done. You know, Greg just passed at 39. I don’t know how much longer I have. I hope a lot longer, but I
Elyse: wanna see who I am when I play full out in my life. One of the things that I learned in that process was that. For so long. I had looked at the results I wanted, but I hadn’t felt worthy of them. I wanted to make seven figures. I wanted to sell at that level. I wanted to earn at that level, but I didn’t feel like a match for it. It felt bigger than me, and so one of the first things I learned is your level of income will [00:20:00] never exceed your level of self-worth. And so if you have a revenue target for your firm or an income target for yourself, but it feels bigger than you, it feels like, ooh, aspirational, or someone else can do it, but not me. You’re not a match for it yet.
Elyse: We always earn. Everyone has a financial set point. So you think what’s governing how much money you’re making is the funnel you’re using, the script you’re using, how many prospects you have? No. The first thing that’s governing it is your self concept, your identity. Do you identify as a woman who naturally, normally, automatically makes a hundred thousand dollars a month, $200,000 a month, $500,000 a month, or do you identify as a woman who makes $5,000 a month, $10,000 a month? Nothing wrong with any of those numbers, by the way.
Elyse: I just wanna say, if you have an aspiration for yourself of more, but it feels bigger than you, you’re not gonna do it. Or you’ll
Elyse: do it once and then you’ll go back down because that financial set point. [00:21:00] It’s just like a thermostat inside of you.
Elyse: I was talking to a client yesterday who had had her best year ever last year, and then suddenly everything stopped I’m sure some of your listeners have had this experience.
Elyse: I’ve had an experience where I had like my best month and then suddenly my worst month. Why? It’s the thermostat recalibrating to what feels normal to you. And so again, did I take different actions during that time? Yes, but only, only after I actually did the deeper identity work to, number one, realize that I’d been making money bigger than me.
Elyse: And it wasn’t just like we said before, your energy, your essence, who you are, that’s the actual gift. And one of the other things that I learned in there in that experience is that your results will never supersede your identity. And so I had to go deep and say, where am I? Not currently a match for what I want because in business and in life, we don’t get what we want. We get what we are.
Elyse: So [00:22:00] I started investing like a woman who was making seven figures. Even though I wasn’t, I had heard someone say, you should invest five to 10% of what you want to make in personal coaching and mentoring, not what you are
Elyse: making right now. That’s how I justified the $50,000 investment
Elyse: ’cause I was like, well, if I’m making a million, I guess 50 grand. Makes sense.
Elyse: Okay. And so I did it even though I, again, I didn’t have the money, but I was like, I’ve gotta do this. I’ve gotta find a way to make it work. From that place, I put myself in the energy of mentors. I was actually working with a couple different people at the time, but mentors and coaches who were thinking and operating at a very different level from me who could help me.
Elyse: Number one, call me out on my own BS
Elyse: number two. Help me make what once felt big, feel small, and help give me some different ideas in my business. But what I’ll say is I launched one new thing during that time, which was a group program. I had massive limiting beliefs about whether a group of women would ever wanna work with me.
Elyse: I’d always done private coaching before that, and I didn’t think a whole group of women would wanna work with me. [00:23:00] So it bumped up on the edges of everything I thought about myself, and I had to stretch that and expand that. But that one action did generate a quantum leap,
Elyse: but it started with identity. It started with self-concept. And I do, I’m more than happy to share. We’ve got a free training on, I call it the four quadrants of quantum sales growth, where I break down like the entire process of what happened in that six weeks and how someone can use it to create their own
Elyse: quantum leap, whatever that looks like. So more than happy to share that link,
Elyse: With your audience, if that’s helpful.
Maggie: For sure.
Maggie: For sure.
Maggie: I’ll be there.
Elyse: Okay. Yeah, that, so that goes deeper but it really is so much more about who you are being than what you’re doing.
Maggie: I love that. And I love that you just, sometimes we need to pay people to call us out on our BS ’cause we will convince ourselves out of it. And like if you told me a group of women wouldn’t wanna go coach with you, I’d be like, Elyse, what are you talking about? Like, you’re so welcoming. Of course there’s a group of women like, go find 10 women who would wanna work with you.
Maggie: Like that’s, I would think, yeah, that’s no problem for her to do. And so it’s [00:24:00] funny what we think to ourselves because even other people would be like, yeah, no doubt she would do that. You know what I mean?
Elyse: it’s so true. And we get stuck in our own narrative. We get stuck in our own heads and, and thank you for that. And truly, I, I was like, there’s no way a group of women are gonna hire me. I had a lot of wounding in our
Elyse: wounding around that, and now it’s almost my whole business model. So it’s funny, but I think that’s, it goes to show, one of the things I truly believe is your desires are green lights.
Elyse: So
Elyse: if you’re listening to this. You have a desire to start a new revenue stream in your business or launch something new. Maybe pitch yourself for more media. But you’ve got that limiting belief about, well, who am I to do that? It’s a lie. Limiting beliefs are
Elyse: lies. They really, really are. And when you work through that and you get to the other side of it, you realize. That was your freedom. That was the gateway to everything that you wanted. But you’ve gotta learn to kind of come full circle. You’ve gotta learn how to trust yourself and listen and then take action based on your knowing.
Maggie: Yeah. [00:25:00] Have you read that book, green Light by Matthew McConaughey?
Elyse: I’ve read parts of it. I got it from my husband and I saw it. I was like, yeah, because I always, that was one of my signature phrases that I developed was like, your desires are green lights that I saw. He wrote the green light book, and I thought, this is perfect.
Maggie: You’ve gotta, listen to it because he reads
Maggie: it and then it’s oof. Then it’s a great book.
Elyse: For multiple reasons. Right.
Maggie: For multiple reasons. Yeah, it’s a great audible. And so I just wanna dive into a little bit that I feel like every woman feels all the time is overwhelm,
Maggie: especially if you’re a business owner. So how do we permanently drop this sense of overwhelm in business?
Maggie: We’re juggling so much all the time. I mean, you just told me you have three kids, you have the dogs, you have the business, your husband’s in medical school, which I know is.
Maggie: All the time and no money. Like how do you drop the overwhelm?
Elyse: it’s great.
Maggie: my sister’s a doctor, so like I’ve
Maggie: seen it all and like, yeah, you’re overworked and underpaid.
Maggie: I also watch the pit all the time, so.
Elyse: I love that. [00:26:00] So I had a mentor say something to me probably over 10 years ago that really helped me and I’m so glad she said it to me at that point in my career. ’cause it helped me. Especially in this season. She said this to me before, I think before I had kids, before hubby was in med school, but my favorite word was overwhelm.
Elyse: I was always talking about I’m so overwhelmed. I’m so overwhelmed. I’ve got all this. I would get up at 2:00 AM not ’cause I wanted to, but
Elyse: because I was like, I’ve gotta get up to get all this stuff done. And to try to like blast through the email inbox I always felt behind. I mean, burning the candle at both ends like you wouldn’t imagine. And I had started working with a mentor who was like the first one to really teach me feminine energy. And again, at the beginning of of this, I was like, what is this? This just, this feels strange and weird and foreign. But one of the things she said, she was like, I am not available for overwhelm. She said, I’m just not. I just don’t [00:27:00] do it. And she was running a business that was probably at least 10 times the size of mine, traveling the world with her husband. And in that moment I was like, oh, I never even thought of that as an option to just not experience it because I was experiencing it all the time.
Elyse: But I said, well, if it works for her, maybe it’ll work for me.
Elyse: And so I started playing with the idea of like, I just don’t say the word. I just don’t speak the word. I don’t put that language on myself.
Elyse: And you know what, Maggie? I stopped feeling it like I, it is amazing how our language determines our experience. I stopped feeling that sense. So first I replaced it.
Elyse: Then I don’t say this anymore, but first I replaced it with I’m in demand. I actually taught my community. So it’s funny. I was like, y’all, you are not gonna say the word overwhelm on our calls. You can say in demand. I’m feeling in demand today. So it became almost like this little code word in our community where a woman would hop on and her eyes would be wild and she’d be like, I’m [00:28:00] really feeling in demand today. Help me with it. And so we would work through it. But. To me, it’s a state of being and I am not discounting at all that there are a lot of things we could be doing at any given moment. I’m really
Elyse: not, and I know there’s women out there with. More kids than me, more things going on than me. More like I get it.
Elyse: I totally get it. I’m not discounting any of that. What I’m saying is that two people can have the same set of circumstances and completely different experiences of them because of their perspective. So having adopted the mindset that I’m not available for overwhelm. The way I approach my days now, like they are, they are full.
Elyse: You know, they’re full. I’ve got the two youngest kids at home. I run multimillion dollar business. I’ve got a team, we’ve got a magazine we launch. I’ve got a media company. We’re building and running. I travel, I speak, I do the things. And it’s really [00:29:00] important to me to be with my kids and to be present and to not feel guilt about that. And so there’s a couple of things. I’d say the first thing is just deciding, I’m not gonna use
Elyse: that word, and I’m not gonna label my experience as that ever. The second has been giving myself permission to really know what today is about.
Maggie: Mm.
Elyse: in any given moment, again, there could be, there’s like 300 things we could be doing, right? And I used to be a woman who you and I would be talking right now, but I’d be thinking about all those other things.
Elyse: Or I’d be on a sales call with a prospect and I wouldn’t, I’d physically be there, but mentally I wouldn’t be there. I’d be thinking about, okay, how am I gonna close them? What’s happening next?
Elyse: What is this gonna mean for my commission check? Like all of it, it was happening in my mind.
Elyse: I was never present. For me, learning meditation has been critical. So I get up early and I, I do it and that’s important to me. My two year old’s up at 5:00 AM so I gotta do it [00:30:00] before then.
Maggie: So you’re still up at two in the morning?
Elyse: I’m up around three usually, and I also, this is important. I’m not sleep deprived. I go
Elyse: to bed early. I go to bed by like eight,
Elyse: so I’m not, I’m not telling women like, please take care of your body. I’m naturally an early bird. I always have been. Don’t think you have to be if that’s not how your body is wired. Some women are more. Night. You can do it
Elyse: anytime. It doesn’t matter.
Elyse: Honor your body. I’m just saying, when you learn these things and you prioritize yourself and you figure out how to weave them in into your life, I think about my days in flow now
Elyse: where I think about, okay, I’m flowing from this to that. So this morning I was. Playing with the kids while they’re ripping their clothes off that we just got on them and they’re running around like crazy, like Little Warriors.
Elyse: And then I drove my son to school and it I was present with him. We were singing in canto songs while, while we were driving. And then listened to a beautiful book on the way back. And now I’m here with you. And then I know I’ve [00:31:00] got maybe an hour or so today of like my own time for my to work on my business outside of meetings. And so I’m gonna be really intentional about what I do there, and I’m gonna do only the things that really matter that today’s about. And I’m gonna let the rest, the rest go.
Elyse: and my business has grown in that energy. I say this in our community, your shoulds are shit. Tune in to what is on your list what you’re thinking you need to do. Is it a heartfelt soul aligned? Yes. Is it in alignment with the version of you who’s at the level you wanna be at? Does she do those things or is it a should?
Elyse: If it’s a should drop it. It’s not gonna move the needle. It’s an energy suck. Energy drink. Get rid of it, delegate it, delete it. I don’t care. Let it go.
Maggie: Yeah,
Maggie: I love that it’s awesome ’cause you’re not like, I’m, I’m hustling to each
Maggie: place. Like, no,
Maggie: I’m flowing to each place, you know, which just makes you feel like, I don’t know, to me, like I’m in an elegant ball
Maggie: gown, you know, I’m just like drifting across. But it’s also, yeah, we always tell women, you know, stop shitting yourself.
Maggie: Like, [00:32:00] I should know how to do all these financial things. I should know how to make this business. I should know this. No, why should you? Like Why are we just expecting to come out of the womb and like know these items? You know, like that doesn’t align. So I think these are all really great tips. One more question I wanted to ask, and I think we’ve touched on this a little bit, is kind of what’s that surprising factor that skyrockets women’s income faster than anything else? Is that just the internal belief? Not just, but is that the internal belief?
Elyse: I love this. We talked about it and the short answer is yes. It’s your identity, your self concept, and your capacity to receive. And I’ll just, I’ll add a little more onto what we said earlier, and even Maggie, with you using the word hustle. When I was stuck at the same level for 10 years and I was hustling, I was like, how fast and how hard and how long can I work? I was in pure masculine energy and
Elyse: masculine feminine energy. It doesn’t have to do with your gender. We all have both energies in us. [00:33:00] Masculine energy is action. It’s doing, it’s linear, it’s structure, it’s containment, it’s make a hundred calls, talk to 10 prospects, close three of ’em. It’s that
Elyse: type of thing. We all, we get it. I came from a world where I was saturated in masculine energy. And that was how I thought I had to be to be successful.
Elyse: When I learned how to lead with feminine energy and be like 70% in feminine, which is about vision, inspiration, flow, desire, letting the universe meet me halfway with what I want, like I’m gonna move the energy, I’m gonna take the actions, but I’m doing it in a state where. I feel like it’s already done. And that happens with the visualization, the
Elyse: meditation. I’m gonna allow for the quantum leap. I’m not gonna think linearly anymore. I’m, I’m gonna stop saying, well, what should my goal be? And I’m gonna start saying, what do I really want? What do I desire? What would I love? That’s when money comes. And so from that [00:34:00] place, when we start leading with feminine and letting masculine support it, which is actually naturally how it’s designed to be. Then we skyrocket when we open up our capacity to receive and we say, oh, where am I blocking receiving? Where am I saying no to help, no to support, no to opportunities. When in reality I really love them. That ups your financial thermostat. That
Elyse: ups your financial frequency. So it’s all the inner game and the embodiment. The action is like three to 5% of it. It flows naturally from that, but it’s all your self concept.
Maggie: It makes you more excited. ’cause then I’m like, well, if it’s just my self concept and it’s only three to 5% of what I’m doing, I’m doing it in the inverse right now. So we gotta flip that, you know, which doesn’t flip overnight, but recognizing that I think is so helpful.
Elyse: absolutely. Absolutely.
Elyse: Again, I’ll share ’cause I’ve had so many great mentors. I remember one woman once telling me like, at least let it be easy. That defied [00:35:00] everything in my conditioning. I was like, I can’t be successful if it’s not hard. She said, let it be easy. And so I said, okay. Again, I’ll be humble.
Elyse: That’s working for you. Let me try it. And sure enough,
Elyse: it did. So if it feels hard, not that there’s not seasons or periods where we get to grow or go through contrast, but if it generally feels hard. It’s not about working more for you, it’s about aligning first with what you want, letting it feel natural, easy, automatic, and then let it come in.
Elyse: Take the action to support it.
Maggie: Yeah, definitely. I listen to a lot of like Abraham Hicks and it’s a
Maggie: lot of like, why are you going uphill on the stream right now against the current? Like, why are you doing that? Like you could just go down with the current and end up
Maggie: at the same spot, you know? So that’s all I can think about.
Maggie: This has been so much fun. So we do have a question we ask everybody on our podcast and I can’t wait to hear answer. So Elyse, what is your own definition of financial freedom?
Elyse: Oh, I love that question. I would say [00:36:00] it is the ability to do what I want, when I want, however I want it with whomever I want. That’s it to me. And I think it’s a feeling state of ease, relaxation, and support more than anything.
Maggie: I love it. Well, thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise. I can’t wait to get your workshop in the show notes so people can attend that and, and learn more about growing their business and, and changing that mental state so we can all just be in this flow, we all opened our businesses to have that freedom, right?
Maggie: And to get out of those golden handcuffs and to do things the way we wanna do them. I think we just need to lean into that more. Sometimes we forget that’s the reason why we went into business. So thank you again for sharing your expertise and yeah, I can’t wait to see what the listeners think of this.
Elyse: Thank you for having me.
Maggie: course, we’ll talk to you later. Bye.
Outro: You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. [00:37:00] Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless.
Why Power Changes How Women Talk About Money with Emily Weber
You don’t need the “right” background to make real change
Today’s episode is a powerful reminder that leadership doesn’t come from perfect resumes or polished pathways. It comes from lived experience, values, and the courage to step forward when something isn’t right.
We’re joined by Representative Emily Weber, who represents Jackson County District 24 in the Missouri House of Representatives. Emily shares her journey from growing up as an adopted kid in rural Kansas and earning an art degree, to becoming the first Asian American woman elected to Missouri’s General Assembly.
Emily opens up about what pushed her into politics, how imposter syndrome almost stopped her from running, and why representation truly matters. We talk about money, power, confidence, and what happens when women stop waiting to be “qualified enough” and start showing up anyway.
This conversation is honest, grounding, and motivating. Especially if you’ve ever thought, “Who am I to do this?”
If you’ve been feeling stuck, frustrated, or unsure where your power actually lives, this episode will meet you right there.
Join us for next week’s Money Talks, we’ll talk about “His, Hers, Ours: Setting Up Shared vs. Separate Accounts” Click here to registerfor FREE and bring your questions!
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Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
Maggie:[00:00:00] Mama, you ever think about running for any political office in your spare time?
Barb: No, I’ve considered it in the past, Really?
Barb: well, yeah, I always think that we have to do something, however, my time has been spent on the school board, so that’s kind of a stepping stone, right. To get on a board. I’ve also been on several other boards, so I’ve felt like that’s kind of my contribution to my community and we all do need to.
Barb: Do something for our community. So being on the school board, being on a nonprofit board, couple of those as well has been a great contribution and a great learning experience. How about you?
Maggie: I never thought about it, not once.
Barb: about now?
Maggie: Now I feel like I need to do more. It is still not run, I don’t think that’s for me. But I think there’s more ways I can be involved get some stuff done, to see the change I wanna see in the world.
Barb: Well, you know, everyone thinks, oh, why aren’t those people doing this? Or why aren’t those people doing that? And the realization is it takes all of us, right? You can’t [00:01:00] count on everyone else to do the work. And we all need to do our fair share and step up and it’s tough out there.
Barb: I will tell you, even being on the school board, there’s a lot of people that will point fingers and tell you what you’re doing wrong. But yet when you say, well, if you’d like to. Run for the school board and have your voice be heard in that way. We’d love to have you. And of course everyone says, oh no, I have no time to do that.
Barb: So, we have to honor those people that are in these positions and really respect that they’re doing the best job they can. And you can. counterpoint all day long. And that’s fine. We all need to have our opinions. We need to have critical thinking and really challenge our thinking and challenge one another so that we’re doing always the right thing.
Barb: But we all need to take a role if nothing else, if we haven’t learned anything else to this date on this day, we all need to step forward and play a role in our political arena.
Barb: Well, and you don’t need an attorney. You don’t need to be an attorney to do it like people think, I need all these qualifications.
Maggie: well. I [00:02:00] feel like. Now taking a zoom out, it’s kind of like your political advocate is like the face of the business. You know what I mean? Like it’s like if you looked at Facebook and think of like Mark Zuckerberg, like, he’s not doing it all. He’s just the face of the business, maybe has the final say, but like there’s thousands of people under him putting in the work. And that’s kind of like a political person as well, is like, yeah, but they can’t do it all. They have a thousand people under them and they’re just kind of the face, they’re the. Yeah, ideally they are doing a lot of things, not just the face, but it takes a lot.
Maggie: It’s not just them as the team. They have a full team. And sometimes that team needs help and we gotta be helpful because that’s part of what this country is kind of built on is having that say. And it is kind of interesting. How some people are like I don’t really wanna vote. I don’t like either person, which is I saw this thing one time.
Maggie: This is kind of a sidetrack, but they’re like, voting is like taking the bus. You are gonna take the route that’s gonna get you closest to where you wanna be. But so [00:03:00] many people treat voting like an Uber where you wanna get to that exact destination and nobody’s gonna take you to that exact thing that you want on all those things.
Maggie: But you wanna get as close as you can. So you’re gonna take the bus.
Maggie: And I thought that was a really good analogy.
Barb: Yeah, because you’re not gonna believe a hundred percent in what that person is doing. Every single vote that they make and all of that. But what’s gonna get you as close as possible when you only have a two party system? Right. And the thing about voting is voting matters. People think, oh, it doesn’t matter.
Barb: I’m one vote. Voting matters. It matters. That’s your right in this many other countries don’t have that, right.
Maggie: Women fought for that, right?
Barb: Right. Exactly. We need to make sure we’re standing up, getting in that car, we’re walking over to that building or whatever it might be, and really casting our vote in a way that makes our voices be heard.
Barb: Otherwise, you have nothing to complain about if you didn’t vote.
Maggie: And so I’m so excited to have this guest on today. I think Emily is a powerhouse. I think [00:04:00] she’s an inspiration and I think she really shows that any of us can, step into that political power if that’s something that we’re interested in doing and wanna see that change. So I think we should just dive into this episode ’cause it’s a good one.
Barb: It’s a really good one.
Maggie: All right. Let’s get started.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.
Maggie: All right. Today I’m very excited about our guest. I met her through a networking event at Innovate her kc in Kansas City, Missouri. For those are not as familiar but I met Emily Weber and I’m so [00:05:00] excited to have her on the show today. So, Emily, before we dive in, can you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Emily: Yeah, definitely. So, I’m Emily Weber. I am the state representative for District 24 here in Missouri. That is in Kansas City. It’s the midtown, downtown area of Kansas City. So if you’ve ever been to any of the things you most likely have visited my district. Now in my sixth year as a state rep.
Emily: So that is three terms. Technically we can serve four terms. So I’m in my last third term right now. It’s been a wild ride. You know, I ran during. Pandemic. I was elected during the pandemic. I was also elected during the stop Asian hate, so that was going on as well. So it’s, it’s been very interesting.
Emily: I was raised in rural Kansas, so I have an agriculture background adopted from South Korea, so I did grow up with white parents. It’s been, you know, my [00:06:00] upbringing has been interesting because I never. Never knew that it would actually prepare me to come down to Jeff City and, and deal with a lot of the things that, that I think small towns have dealt with.
Emily: And maybe some confusion as well in stereotypes. And then also having the ag background as an urban rep is, has always been a good one to actually have coming into the house.
Maggie: Yeah. Are you gonna run again? You get one more term. Is it too early to ask?
Emily: now, well you’ll probably be hearing in a, few weeks here maybe this week if everything goes correctly this is going to be my last time in the house, so this is my last year. I’m not gonna seek reelection. I am running for Kansas City City Council forth at large in 2027. So that’s what I’ll be doing.
Maggie: I love it. Good for you, Emily.
Emily: Thanks.
Maggie: And so I’m excited to like dive into all of this, you know? You didn’t come from a traditional political background. I think your [00:07:00] degree was in marketing, is that correct?
Emily: graphic design. I went to Kansas City Heart Institute.
Maggie: okay, great. And so how did you go from Art Institute to take us back to that moment where you’re like this isn’t for me.
Maggie: Maybe I should go into politics.
Emily: Yeah, my upbringing, my parents always raised us kids to give back to the community whatever that looked like. Now granted I am a different party than my parents,
Barb: now that’s interesting.
Emily: Exactly. and they taught us, to give back to the community, I don’t think they realized what I was gonna give back to and the organizations I was volunteering for.
Emily: But it was one of those where, you know, graduated from Kansas City Art Institute. That’s what. Led me to, fell in love with the Kansas City and just stayed after graduation ’cause I wasn’t gonna move back to my small town. And really I think it was probably, I used to say this,
Emily: which is it kind of naive looking back on it, but I used to say I wasn’t political. I’d vote, but I wasn’t [00:08:00] really political. But then you look at all the organizations that I was donating my time to, I was a patient escort with Planned Parenthood for years. I volunteered my hours to organizations that I aligned with.
Emily: And that used to be anything from animal rescues to reproductive healthcare, to unions and environmental issues. It was basically everything in between, but I didn’t really give my time back to candidates or, things like that, I’d vote, but that was about it. And 2016 happened the day after the 2016 election.
Emily: I was in a grocery store and I was told to go back to where I came from, China all. So we knew that was going to happen. We knew that was the rhetoric. It was just more of a slap in the face because it was literally the next day. So that was my realization that voting wasn’t enough because I’m the type of person that.
Emily: If something like that happens, I get upset. And I have to do something. I don’t wanna just sit back. I [00:09:00] have to do something. So I started really focusing my time on trying to, figure out what to do because this was something that I’ve never done before. Who do I talk to? Who do I have conversations with?
Emily: What am I supposed to do? And so I started really focusing on going to Greater Kansas City Women’s Political Caucus. They were really big at the time. Still are, but they were, they were actually on Rachel Maddow because they had the largest meeting ever. But so I went to their meetings, I became a board member.
Emily: I helped with Women Politics Foundation and then really I started. Looking at candidates and what is it that I can do on the candidate side? And at that point, Cherise, Davids on the Kansas side, was running to flip a congressional seat, which he did. But I started helping her do all of the things, whatever that was you know, time, energy events.
Emily: It was a [00:10:00] lot of things that we had to do. And I started from. The start to the finish. I was there at her announcement when we found out she won and flipped that seat. So it was really that, that got me motivated to help not only folks on the Kansas side, but also folks on the Missouri side.
Emily: And I just started door knocking for all the candidates that I believed in.
Barb: Boy, you really took action. It’s so impressive. I mean, I get it. You know, how are you gonna make change if we don’t do our fair share. Right. Our part. So that’s amazing. And you know, as we see in the political arena, there are more women coming in and that’s exciting. Right. But you know,
Barb: you don’t need to have the right background, like a political science degree or connections. Do you think stepping in it was complicated for you or like, I didn’t fit here. I’m a marketing degree, I’m an artist, you know, type thing. Like, take us into what that feels like to step into that position.
Emily:[00:11:00] Yeah, a hundred percent. So I mean, again, this is something that I never thought I would. Do I never had an ambition to run for office. So when I knew that my state rep, Judy Morgan was getting ready to be termed out, I started trying to figure out who was running for receipt, who could I help or get to know as being my next state rep, and that nobody was chiming in at the time.
Emily: So that was an issue. So I’m like, we have to get somebody to run. We need somebody who’s gonna stand up. And that’s when the community started looking at me and they’re like, Emily, it’s you, you run. And I looked and I was like, I can’t run. Like in my head, I told them, I was like, I’m not an attorney. I literally have a fancy art decree from Kansas City Heart Institute, still paying off my student loans. You know, I’m like, I never interned in the capital. Like this isn’t something that I am, looking at to do. And then after a while I started thinking about it and it was, you know, I have. Because I did [00:12:00] have that imposter syndrome.
Maggie: How could you not?
Emily: Exactly, this is insane. Like, you people are crazy. You want me to run and be your elected official? And it was interesting because after a while I sat down and thought about it and I have been paid less than a man for the same position I’ve been without healthcare. I’ve had to work multiple jobs because when I graduated from KCEI, it was when the market tanked and there wasn’t any jobs for graphic designers. So you really had to kind of figure out how to make ends meet. I’ve used Planned Parenthood, not for an abortion, but for just general healthcare because I did not have health insurance.
Emily: At the same time I looked at it, I’m a minority woman in the state of Missouri, and at the end of the day, I can come here and make laws and fight for good solid legislation that helps people because I’ve lived it and I understand it. Then of [00:13:00] course my ag background came into play when I won a three-way primary during the pandemic with 69% of the votes. And it was one of those where my minority leader at the time, crystal Quaid. Called me and we were talking and she kind of asked like, what committees are you looking at? And things like that.
Emily: And I told her AG was one of them. She’s like, I’ll give it to you, but why? And I told her, I was like, I have an ag background. I’m a four HR. I grew up in rural Kansas. My dad owned Weber search dairy equipment. I’m probably the only urban rep that can milk a cow by hand.
Barb: Wow. Put that on your resume.
Emily: know, like I’m a minority woman who represents a very blue district in midtown, downtown. The agriculture community won’t see me coming. The rural reps won’t see me coming, and I hear time and time again. The rural reps don’t understand the urban reps and [00:14:00] vice versa, and I understand both.
Emily: So it’s been a really good way for me to come in and build alliances and bridges across the aisle. Granted, we don’t agree on everything and we never will. But we can have some tough conversations and a lot of the real reps have learned from either my experiences because they trust me. Because a lot of this has to do with relationship building and trust.
Emily: You know, we file bipartisan bills together. We have a bipartisan bill that I file with a retired veterinarian who in my district, I have Azi Village for black women. And it’s mama Hakima runs it and it’s one of those, or started it, I think she’s officially retired now.
Emily: But it’s one of those, it’s about doulas and it’s about you know, they treat the black women who come in there and really help with their pregnancies. And so we have a bipartisan build together to help [00:15:00] that. And, you know, representative Hayden had no idea what. Doula is never been here.
Emily: Learned a lot and understood a lot and came back and said, yeah, this is gonna help. It’s not only gonna help them, it’s also gonna help real areas as well. So it’s been a way that we can work across the aisle and build alliances on a whole bunch of things, I mean, back to this, it’s just been, you know, I would joke that my upbringing was just getting me ready for this position in Jefferson City.
Barb: That’s fascinating. Yeah. You don’t realize when you were milking that cow, the value it was gonna bring to you in other areas. Right.
Emily: Exactly.
Maggie: it’s so interesting and I love how you’re in that room with so much energy. Like, who’s gonna do it, who’s gonna do it? And you’re like, okay, I guess it’s me now with all the
Barb: took a step back and you were there, right? You were in front?
Emily: I’m the chosen one
Maggie: I think when I first heard you talk, I’ve never thought about going into politics ever, but I was like, [00:16:00] wow, she did this with, you know, an art degree. Like I always thought you had to be a lawyer and had to have all this stuff, and then you kind of zoom out and you look who’s serving and you’re like, ah, that makes sense that you don’t, but like you hold these people kind of to this high standard of like, they have all this depth of knowledge and you know, all these things, and you’re like, they’re just kind of this
Maggie: the same as you and me, you know, but like, have a passion for this and a drive and they’re gonna do the thing. You know, you’re good with relationships. You have a little spite in you, so you’re willing to put up the fight. I mean, hardworking, like those are the qualities that you need, right?
Maggie: And it’s not just being a lawyer in graduating law school.
Emily: And women have those best qualities.
Barb: Yeah, for sure. It’s so funny, like I see these funny TikTok videos or whatever that say, you know, why aren’t women leading, men can’t even plan a party. They can’t even plan a vacation. Why are they planning anything? You know, we give it to the women who can multitask and get things done with, you know, doing 10 other things.
Emily:[00:17:00] Exactly.
Barb: yeah, it’s pretty funny.
Maggie: So then I know, you know, running forces you to talk more openly about money, how much is raised, spent, needed, all these things. Of course, as you know, women in many ways are taught to avoid the conversation of money. And so how did this kind of experience change your relationship with money, confidence, power, all of those different things?
Emily: Yeah, that has always been interesting because of course, yes. We were never taught to talk about money at all, and I was not comfortable talking about money up until I ran for office. And then that’s all you talk about as a candidate, you know? So it has really allowed me to feel a little bit more open and comfortable talking about money and talking about how much you’ve raised or how much you have to spend.
Emily: You know how much something costs, whatever, and openly talking about it because you have to defend how much money you need. And how much money you have to spend as a candidate. And then of course, [00:18:00] all the state reps when we get together from, you know, there’s a lot of different conferences that we go to where it’s state reps from across the United States and we play a fun game of where are you from?
Emily: And how much money do you make? Because we openly talk about it all the time because each state is completely different. We don’t make the same. And so each state is completely different. And we always ask, you know, how long do your sessions go as well?
Emily: Because that’s completely different too. So we always, I mean, every table I sit at, that question comes up once, and then you’ll just see a round robin of people go say their state, how much they make. And then it’s something that a lot of us have gotten used to.
Emily: I don’t think I would be comfortable ever talking about finances if I didn’t run for office at some point. ‘Cause it was very uncomfortable.
Barb: Is there pay inequity between the men and women in the same positions?
Emily: No. So this is the sad thing too. This is probably the first sign that’s been equal pay.
Barb:[00:19:00] Wow. Yeah, I was wondering.
Emily: So we all make the same. We all make the same salary. We have a per diem as well. And then the mileage is different because it depends on where you’re from.
Barb: So as the first Asian American woman elected to Missouri. How does that feel for you being the first Asian American woman from your experience in, I think you said, the grocery store and how someone spoke to you then, how do you show up now and how do you see yourself in this position?
Barb: Because it’s kind of like you made it in the way that you are representing them now. Those people in the grocery store, for the most part, right.
Emily: Definitely, definitely. So, we didn’t know that I was going to be the first Asian American woman to be elected. We had no idea up until probably half through the campaign. And then somebody made a comment about it. We did some research. We’re like, oh, it didn’t even dawn on us. I got elected at a time where it was the pandemic and it [00:20:00] was a lot of Asian hate that was happening.
Emily: I think that I was elected at the perfect time because during my first year here as a freshman with your mask on half the building’s not wearing masks we’re having the pandemic COVID vaccine fight. You know, the insurrections happening, things like that. And so it was great times.
Emily: We had a representative on the other side of the aisle who was also a freshman who continued to scream about the China virus whenever we were talking about Covid or vaccines. And it was constantly the China virus. I knew that this rep has introduced himself as the farthest of the far right.
Emily: So in my opinion, I went to my leadership at the time because I’m like, this has gotta stop. This is the fourth time he’s done it that I know of. We all boo and whatever, and a lot of us are upset about it, but I’m like, what can I do, you know? [00:21:00] And there was a few things I could do. I could point of order him which would make him halt if I was on the floor. But that would be me doing it. It’s not always gonna work. I could file a charge if I want to. So what I did was I did an HR complaint and then I did a press release stating why I did an HR complaint against this rep.
Emily: And the HR complaint was mainly, it wasn’t to apologize publicly, it wasn’t to resign. It was literally just these were the reasons why you need to stop your language because it hurts people to look like me. This is the people’s house. If anybody who was of Asian descent who came into this building and heard China virus being screamed on the floor they would feel attacked and nobody should feel attacked in their own home.
Emily: So, because of that I started getting death threats. Mainly from his [00:22:00] district. So we got death threats for probably about three years off and on. I would say the other side also thought that I was exaggerating or being too sensitive, or this was about me, all those words.
Emily: And then a week after I did this, the Atlanta shootings happened at the massage, the parlor. And when that happened, a lot of the people on the other side came to me and said. We didn’t know, like, like I understand now, but looking back even, you know, and talking to my own caucus you know, they were upset about it, but they probably wouldn’t have gone to the, the means that I did.
Emily: Just because, you know, I think it takes, you know, representation matters. And I think it takes a lot of representation for somebody like me to stand up and say, this is not right. This is not okay. Because, you know, I am the only Asian American woman here. At that time, we did have a [00:23:00] half Asian, half black representative that was on the Democratic side as well. And then of course our speaker, Jonathan Patterson is of Asian descent on the other side as well. But nobody was really going to chime in, so that was one that believe I had to push.
Emily: So representation matters on why we do this. A lot of the times, I don’t think anybody from my caucus would’ve gone as hard as I did on this issue mainly because, I mean, they weren’t Asian. We all hated it, but I think it took somebody who is being really affected by it to say, Hey, this is not gonna happen and I’m gonna do something about it.
Maggie: Do you have any like words of wisdom, if any other non-white woman is thinking about running and to me I think Missouri, you know, out of all the places Missouri, you know, it’s so red. What words of wisdom would you give?
Emily: I would say if any woman wants to run, they should. And especially any minority woman wants to run, please do. We need more women in office. If you look [00:24:00] around, even the women on the other side of the aisle, we are extremely hard workers and just like you say, we multitask, we know how to multitask many things at the same time and it’s not an issue.
Emily: We’re the ones who can organize as well. So, you know, when we go and have our bill hearings and everything else, you can tell that we are the ones that can really, really work. We work the floor, we work the committee rooms. So we definitely need more women in office. We often laughed on the dim side.
Emily: There’s way more women of course, than the republican side and the Republican women at one point, the new freshmen were looking at our side and they’re like, oh my God. Like, you guys just have so many women over there. And we’re like, you can come over anytime want.
Barb: Yeah,
Emily: Like, we could have conversations.
Emily: You can come over anytime you want. You can switch parties.
Barb: There you go. You know, we’re talking to you at a very critical time right now, right? The [00:25:00] nation is so upset and angry and sad and concerned, and people are just kind of stopped dead in their tracks. They don’t know what to do. They don’t know if, should I go on with my daily life when all of this is happening around me.
Barb: Like how do I make sense of it? Why isn’t somebody stepping up and taking control? You know, people are protesting and you’re wondering, yes, I love to see the masses of people out there, but does it move the needle? Call your congress people and you know, I’m in Illinois, so I do call, but we’re all aligned here, so do you suggest, Emily? What are you saying to your, constituents around how do we manage in this time of chaos like we’ve never seen before?
Emily: I would say first and foremost, please take care of your own mental health first, because it’s extremely overwhelming. It’s really hard to watch a lot of the videos. You know, it’s hard on people’s mental [00:26:00] health. So I would say first and foremost, take time for yourself to make sure that you are okay.
Emily: Get involved. Of course. Protests are great. I love them. I love the rallies, but at the same time, I would say that Missouri is a red state, but we’re also a non-voting state, and that’s the issue. If we would vote in elections, we could flip some, we could definitely flip the state, but the issue is a lot of the districts have extremely low voting turnouts, and that’s a problem.
Emily: So I would also tell folks those rallies are great. But at the same time, we’re in an election year you could either stand at those rallies and scream at the top of your lungs, and that’s your mental health strategy as well do it. But at the same time, you could also help and volunteer for candidates that need help.
Emily: You have to think of Canada as almost like a small business or nonprofit, I guess, let’s call it nonprofit, because they need volunteers. They need volunteers for a lot of different things. You know, we’re gonna [00:27:00] talk about door knocking and things like that
Emily: and events, they’re gonna need all of the help that they can get. So I would suggest finding candidates. And of course also, I always say this, district 24, district 25, you know, Midtown, downtown, area of KC Plaza, Brookside area. They’re gonna be fine. They’re blue seats. Look outwards, look at the seats that we need to flip.
Emily: Look in the suburban areas. Look in places like Independence, Missouri. You know, look at those places where we can flip the needle and start helping that way.
Maggie: I love that idea of how it is gonna be up for elections. So we have to get out there and have boots on the ground in that way. How do you recommend kind of people getting connected in that area? Just kind of searching online? I know there’s like the UCLA.
Emily: Of course you can reach out to me. I’m more than happy to help and assist in any way I can to navigate you. Mo House dims is also a place for just state reps in Missouri. You know, that’s a good area of resource. You have the [00:28:00] minority leader if we’re talking about kc, you have the minority leader that lives in kc, ashley Ani.
Emily: She lives in Platte County. So you have a lot of tools necessary. I would say the biggest for folks, reach out to your local elected officials. We will get coffee with you, we will meet up with you. We will add you to our newsletter or campaigns and you will get information from us that way.
Emily: But I have a ton of coffee meetings when I get back home and it’s constituents wanna sit down and they wanna talk. And then during that time, I can kind of figure out where they wanna help because door knockings not for everybody. They get scared. I get it. But there’s other ways you can get involved as well, and then I can pinpoint you to a lot of the candidates that really need focus.
Maggie: How do you do it all on a day? Emily? Aren’t you exhausted?
Emily: It’s a lot of coffee. It’s a lot of coffee.
Barb: You need the coffees now.
Maggie: I’m just like everything that you do and then you’re like, just talk to me. [00:29:00] Like you, I feel like I should talk to your assistant or something. You’re a busy woman.
Emily: We have amazing staff. Our staff is the bread and butter that keeps everything glued. So we have amazing staff. My legislative assistant, Allie, she’s absolutely amazing. She keeps me going. She makes sure my calendar’s all good, but she also helps a lot with constituent outreach and services and making sure that we’re helping district 24 when I can’t be available at that moment.
Emily: I think also this is why I enjoy being the public servant because your day to day is so different. And I think that’s what I really enjoy. It took me a minute to get, you have to. Flip your mind very quickly, especially when you are the elected official, there’s times where I have to flip my brain from talking about the anti L-G-B-T-Q-I-A legislation that continues to go through this building. Legislation to let’s say VLTs, which video lottery terminals.
Emily: And I have to flip it very quickly and sometimes I gotta take a [00:30:00] second because your mind has to get there. But I like the fast paced motion of everything like that. So I love this, which I also say I am a glutton for punishment too.
Maggie: Well, Emily, I think this has been an amazing conversation. There is a question that we like to ask everybody on our podcast. So, you know, looking at your entire journey from being, you know, adopted to becoming an elected official. What does financial freedom mean to you now?
Emily: That’s a really good question. So I’ll be very honest. This is also me coming from a place where I’m going through a divorce too and being completely dependent on myself for the first time in a very long time. So it’s been exhilarating, I would say. I’ve become this, budget nerd.
Emily: For my own personal finances. I’ve figured out different ways to pay off debt to make sure that debt’s paid [00:31:00] off quicker or just, looking at different means that I have for myself. So it’s been, really interesting journey for me because the past three years I’ve been separated and completely on my own.
Emily: I’m not gonna lie, it was scary at first. You know, it’s me. I don’t have anybody really to fall back on if I get in a crunch or anything like that. But it’s been absolutely amazing and I truly love it.
Barb: Yeah, there’s life on the other side and sometimes it’s the best place to be, right? This has been fantastic. I’m honored to have spent this time with you, Emily.
Maggie: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. We’re excited to get this message out and excited for all our listeners to just take some more action in their community. I think this is just a great story of we can all jump in and do something and just finding your spot of what that something is. So thank you Emily, for coming on today and sharing your story, and we’re excited to get you voted in for the next election.
Outro:[00:32:00] You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless.
Finding Clarity and Confidence Before Life’s Next Chapter with Kristin Crockett
Sometimes the hardest money decisions aren’t about numbers.
They’re about alignment, self worth, and having the courage to stop pretending things are “fine.”
In this episode, we sit down with Kristin Crockett, transformational coach, speaker, and community builder who helps women step fully into their Courageous Destiny. She is the founder of Courageous Destiny and co-founder of Women Supporting Women, where she connects resources, expertise, and relationships so everyone involved truly wins. Kristin works with women building passion-based businesses to double and triple their sales results while remaining deeply authentic and in service to others. Through mindset, identity work, and aligned action, she is known for helping women create meaningful, sustainable success that feels true to who they are.
Kristin shares how she learned to tell the difference between fear based hesitation and an intuitive pause, why overwhelm is often a signal that something is out of alignment, and how people pleasing shows up in business, relationships, and money decisions more than we realize.
We also talk openly about her personal journey. Leaving a high earning corporate career. Building a coaching business from the ground up. Navigating divorce as a mom of triplets. And learning how to release what she can’t control while taking responsibility for what she can. This conversation is real, grounding, and full of perspective shifts that will make you pause and ask better questions about where you’re saying yes, where you’re shrinking, and what it would look like to choose yourself with clarity instead of guilt.
Want to take this conversation one step further? Join us for our next Money Talks, a free 30 minute live session where we’ll tackle “Planning for Divorce (before you mention the D word)”
This episode is supported by Marguerita Cheng, CFP®, RICP®, CDFA®, CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth. Marguerita works with women navigating divorce to bring clarity, confidence, and control back into their financial lives. At Blue Ocean Global Wealth, the focus is on helping women understand their options, make informed decisions, and feel empowered about their financial future, especially during moments that feel uncertain or overwhelming. If you’re going through divorce and want support that’s clear, grounded, and centered on your long term wellbeing, you can learn more and connect with Marguerita at www.blueoceanglobalwealth.comand follow her on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and Youtube.
Disclosure:
Securities offered by Registered Representatives and Advisory products and services offered by Investment Advisory Representatives through Private Client Services, member FINRA/SIPC, and a Registered Investment Advisor. Private Client Services and Blue Ocean Global Wealth are unaffiliated entities.
Follow & Connect with Purse Strings
Stay connected for more real talk about women, money, divorce, and financial independence:
Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
[00:00:00]
Barb: Maggie, this is probably gonna sound weird since I’m your mother and you’ve never been divorced and I divorce your dad, but it’s never an easy decision, right? And I know that through Purse Strings, you’ve heard a lot of stories around divorce.
Maggie: Yeah.
Barb: And it’s not an easy decision. You know, you see a lot of women feel guilt, shame.
Barb: They feel terrible for their children and what they think they’re gonna put them through. And they really have to weigh the consequences, right? Of should I go down this road of staying? You know, is it really that bad? Or should I really take this scary leap and. And leave. Right? And shake up the family.
Barb: Shake up the finances, shake up living situations, everything right. It’s difficult. And I think with this conversation that we’ve had with Kristin, brings up some very interesting insights as to [00:01:00] what brought her to the decision and as a coach, she has some interesting insights as to what are some things to think about, consider and journal on if you’re thinking about divorce and how sometimes this, probably many times this decision is best for both people involved and they, they grow and they become better people outside of a relationship that wasn’t serving either one of them.
Maggie: Yeah, and I think I’ve said this before, you know, like, yeah, never been divorced, but being in the kid on the side, you know, it’s like you also don’t wanna see both of your parents mad or unhappy or mean to each other, you know? And I know Kristin talks about that too, about, you know, what example are you setting?
Maggie: And so sometimes people just stay ’cause they think it’s better, but like better. Better for who? Because if if no one’s talking and it’s tension and it’s gross at home, then it’s just like, ah, is this better for all of us? You know? Like, I’d rather you just shake it up because this is not fun [00:02:00] to sit in attention.
Barb: Right. Yeah. As difficult as a decision it is Many people go through it, and how can you come out better on the other side in a way that’s respectful of one another and in a way that is healthy, right? And kind of the health that comes out of it. Just not your own physical health, your wealth, health, your, you know, community health, just, you know, the health of your children and all of that.
Barb: So I found her. A conversation to be very insightful with lots of really great little tips of things to consider and think about it.
Maggie: Yeah, that good? Self-care. Good. Nice little tips and just real, you know what I mean? No, no fluff, but just real. ’cause it, it can be hard, long days, but I think she gave us a lot of great insights, so I think we should dive in.
Barb: Let’s do it.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of [00:03:00] power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.
Maggie: Kristin, we are so excited to have you on Women and Money, the shit we don’t talk about today. And so before we dive into all our questions that we have for you, can you first introduce yourself to the audience a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Kristin: Maggie, I’d be honored to do so. I am Kristin Crockett. I am the founder of my company, Courageous Destiny. Courageous Destiny simply put is everything you want in your business and life. I help women entrepreneurs and business owners build a business and life they love. I’m an elite business and life coach.
Kristin: I’ve been coaching now for [00:04:00] 14 years and am creating community and always like to put people together with really great opportunities and help people live that life they love. I think it’s so important.
Barb: Yeah. I love it. And we know each other and I, I know the work that you do and it’s really impactful. So can you describe your work and the woman that you most love supporting?
Kristin: I love to connect. When somebody has a purpose in life, something they’re really passionate about, I love to help them monetize that into a business. So I don’t care if they’re a sculptor, I don’t care if they want to sell friendship bracelets. It doesn’t matter to me. Like if it’s something they truly love to do, I love to connect them fully to that difference they can make in the world and then be able to monetize that.
Kristin: And to me, [00:05:00] when we’re working in our purpose, we can truly be fulfilled and we can truly live that business in life we love. And I’ve also found that to be incredibly lucrative because to me then that is the career that you don’t need a vacation from, like, and it, I think your business can actually be really healing and fun and exciting and exhilarating.
Maggie: You definitely need that, that passion to drive you. But if you have that passion, I mean, they say if you do what you love, right? You never work a day in your life, which we could talk about that one later.
Kristin: I worked for a long time in corporate where I wasn’t doing what I loved, and then to now be at the contrast of that, it’s just amazing and I love to help people do that.
Maggie: And so there is kind of this break and I really wanna dive into this, of how do you help women kind of differentiate between this fear-based hesitation and like an [00:06:00] intuitive pause. Especially ’cause women, we always seem to be going and needing to do more. And so how do we find that, that sweet spot or know that sweet spot.
Kristin: Well, I think when fear is present, there’s usually a feeling that goes along with it, that you don’t wanna feel like there’s discouragement. There is you know, the ego kind of starts going after it, versus I think, and when I mean by it, the ego starts going after it, is that they can get discouraged or they can feel disappointed or just stopped or stuck.
Kristin: Versus where I think that when it’s an intuitive pause, it’s a reflection. It’s coming from a place of my life is already great, but let me see if this will add value.
Barb: Let’s talk about that intuitive pause. What does that feel like? Like what do, what would a, how would someone describe what that is and why? What makes them [00:07:00] change? What, what makes something in them change because of that?
Kristin: So to me an intuitive pause is I have, I have a decision to make, right? And so. I wanna be thoughtful about that decision. So I have for myself, for example, I’ve created this structure that I always weigh a day.
Barb: Oh.
Kristin: and I weigh a day if it’s a bigger decision because. You know, sometimes like for me, if I’m not grounded, I can really get wrapped up into the emotion of the whole thing.
Kristin: I’m like, yeah, let’s go for it. Or like, I like to say let’s grow for it, but then I get to the next day and I’m like, oh my gosh, I didn’t consider this, this, and this that’s going on next week. Or, I didn’t consider this, this, or this. And so I like to give myself space on purpose to be able to make these kinds of decisions
Kristin: ’cause I wanna understand how they impact [00:08:00] other things that I have growing on in my life. say growing on a lot instead of going, I’ve been replacing it
Barb: I like it. I like it. It’s all about growth.
Kristin: It really is.
Let’s take a quick pause to hear from this week’s episode sponsor. Divorce can shake your confidence, not just emotionally, but financially, and in those moments, you deserve a guidance that brings clarity instead of fear. Hi, I’m Marguerita Cheng, certified Financial Planner, retirement income certified professional, certified Divorce Financial Analyst, and CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth.
I help women going through divorce gain clarity, confidence, and control over their personal finances so they can make decisions that truly support their future. At Blue Ocean Global Wealth, we focus on financial planning first because accessing competent ethical advice. Should not depend on the size of your investment portfolio.
Every woman [00:09:00] deserves to feel financially confident, empowered, and resilient, especially during a life transition as significant as divorce. Visit blue Ocean global wealth.com to learn more about how financial planning can help you navigate divorce with greater clarity and peace of mind. Now back to our show.
Maggie: It is very like, relatable is, you know, Barb and I have a lot of conversations and ideas and I’m always like, I just need to think on it, you know? And over the day, all these different thoughts come and it’s, you know, not even like if it’s a yes or a no, but is it like, the best thing right now, or is it something like this but it’s tweaked a little bit or just really sitting on it lets you process all those things
Maggie: ’cause sometimes you are so excited about the idea, you just wanna run with it. Where then you need that time for that logic to kind of come in and be like, all right, what does that entail? Is this the best route? Is it the best route right now? Or should I wait, you know, two weeks, six months, whatever it may be?
Maggie: And so I really like how you, you take that day to [00:10:00] sit on it ’cause yeah, that excitement, man. It wraps you up.
Kristin: And I am really good at going with that excitement and getting into a bit of a trouble or getting overextended. And when I get overextended, then I get ungrounded and then I start missing things. And that’s, that’s never any good for results for anybody.
Barb: And let’s be clear, that often happens with entrepreneurs, right? Because we’re always thinking about the next best thing, the next shiny object, the next cool event, whatever it might be. And we’re, we hit the ground running. But working with my daughter Maggie, she’s very logical and she pulls me back.
Barb: It makes me mad, really mad. But then once we talk it through, I’m like, yeah, you’re probably right.
Kristin: Well, and I think allowing ourselves to be intentional is so important. So for me, my life’s purpose, I’m wanting to maximize that. That’s when I’m the happiest. That’s when I’m the most fulfilled. So I wanna, I wanna really line up with that intention as much as possible. [00:11:00] And sometimes things can look like a really good fit, but then I’m not understanding all the other thing too, is not understanding all the time and the commitment it’s gonna take.
Kristin: Sometimes we just say yes to things and then it’s like, well, in order for me to do this the real way that I wanna do this. Then I need to be more thoughtful, have more of a consideration on how long it’s gonna take me and so, so on and so forth. It’s an intuitive pause, but it’s also a structured pause on purpose.
Maggie: There’s so many times where we’re like, man, that end result would be great, but like how many hours go into making that end result happen?
Kristin: And does it really maximize it?
Maggie: yeah, so when a woman, you know, begins sensing that something in her life is no longer aligned, what is usually happening beneath the surface.
Kristin: I think when something is not aligned, sometimes it can be really subtle. It can just feel like [00:12:00] unhappiness For me, it could show up like I’m on my pity pot. I start feeling sorry for myself, or I start feeling ungrateful or start feeling overwhelmed is a big word that I hear. You know, when somebody says, I’m overwhelmed, and I’m like, well, what’s out of alignment?
Kristin: Like, what are you saying yes to that’s too much, or is it somebody else’s yes. That you’re saying yes to, or is it actually something that you know you really love? And so I think when somebody’s out of alignment, it shows up like overwhelm. It shows up like fear, it shows up, like being out of your comfort zone all of those different kinds of things.
Maggie: Can we dive into a little bit more about it’s somebody else’s, yes.
Maggie: Share more about like kind of what that means and looks like.
Kristin: I always let people know 95% of the way that we think isn’t conscious to us. So we’re all a little bit in trouble. So we all have like this 5% consciousness and we are [00:13:00] actually made as human beings to forget. It’s really easy to fall into, well I don’t wanna disappoint so and so or so and so thinks we should do that, or I wanna do this, but maybe, maybe it could really infringe upon so and so and make them feel a certain type of way.
Kristin: So almost falling into people pleasing. And so sometimes we’re saying yes unconsciously to things that aren’t really our mission, aren’t really our purpose. But we don’t wanna rock the boat. We don’t wanna overturn the apple cart.
Maggie: Yeah, I could see this a lot in like families and relationships for sure. Especially just when you wanna kind of keep the peace and, you know, not stir the pot. But after a while you’re like, I don’t know if I want to be here anymore because I’m not me anymore. I’m becoming this person that they want me to be.
Kristin: And I also see it in sales a lot. I see it in sales where people don’t wanna ask for the sale or they don’t wanna charge a certain amount for the sale [00:14:00] because, you know, they grew up having a certain type of money mindset, and then they don’t wanna ask for things and they don’t wanna put their selves out there.
Kristin: And that’s not even their dialogue, it’s just something that they learned. So it can really run pretty deep as far as being able, you know, you know, saying yes to things that don’t even relate to what we are up to and what we’re about.
Barb: So let’s dive in a little bit to your own experience, Kristin, and talk a little bit about what helps you stay connected in your inner voice during a time when things felt uncertain because, let’s talk about it. You’re a mom of triplets, right? Tell me. I mean, there’s, there’s no time for uncertainty.
Barb: It’s someone realizing they’re having three babies at the same time.
Kristin: Grounding for me is key. And by grounding, I mean I have to intentionally slow down [00:15:00] and always be connected to my breath and you know, and be like, I’m okay. I’m okay right now. Like when things get real,
Kristin: I have to remember who I am. Like, calm down. Like I’m okay. I’m okay.
Kristin: Like that’s a big thing of what I do. That and prayer. One thing I’ve noticed as a mom of triplets, as an entrepreneur, is I only have control over me, even as a mom, like I only have control over me. There’s a saying with our kids that God has no grandchildren. And that like that to me is like, everybody has their own journey.
Kristin: And I can’t control people, places or things. I only have control over myself. I’ve trained myself to look for, well, what is my role here? What are the actions that I’m responsible for? And if I do those actions, then it’s time for me to release it.
Kristin: It’s time for me to [00:16:00] release it and then let the chips fall where they may,
Kristin: and that’s a big part of how I’ve gotten through with triplets.
Kristin: It’s a big part about how I’ve been able to have a 14 year career in coaching in this whole uncertain, like nothing is certain,
Kristin: like day to day. It’s not certain.
Barb: It’s interesting about the release part ’cause I think that’s one thing we don’t do. We don’t release it. We carry it with us all the time and worry and try to control as much as we can and don’t realize that it’s out of our control, you know, so much of it. So we worry, you know, we worry a lot and that doesn’t get us anywhere for sure.
Barb: So, yeah.
Kristin: There’s certain things that I really love to help draw awareness to my clients for and, and to the people I meet. Like something like worry, guilt, shame usually has a feeling in a way it feels in the body. So if you can take that 5% and [00:17:00] identify it, that that’s what’s happening, you can kind of bring yourself back and go, what is there for me to do if I’ve done everything there is for me to do?
Kristin: Can I release it? I kind of look at worry. I love that you said worry ’cause it’s, it’s something so common and I’ve worked a lot on this. This isn’t like something by the way, that I just like picked up and I’m like, I never worry, you know? ’cause I practice. No, I worried all the time
Kristin: I couldn’t sleep.
Kristin: And I would start to practice identifying it and then going, okay, what do I have control over here? Let me take that, those steps, everything else I have to release, you know, and so that, that’s, that’s, that’s definitely a practice of mine and, and they always say replace a habit with a habit. So if it’s worry, now I can practice gratitude.
Kristin: I do talk about gratitude a lot because [00:18:00] it’s a great way to replace some of those undesired emotions when you are ready. It’s not that you don’t wanna honor emotions that are happening to you or not reflect on ’em or not handle, like I said, what are those things that I’m responsible for?
Kristin: But as soon as you’re ready to stop, I like people to be able to go, okay, well what am I grateful for? What are my blessings? When I look back at some of the times that I was worried the most, most of the time I’ve been able to get through ’em pretty good eventually. You know, I have actually much more of a track record of being able to do that than I do of completely flopping around and right.
Maggie: I mean, isn’t that where they say like, you’ve already made it through all of your toughest days. And you know, but there is that point, you know, I like how you mentioned, you know, the gratitude, but there is that point where you also have to acknowledge that fear that you have is so often I hear, you know, people of like manifest and positive [00:19:00] thoughts.
Maggie: And so instead of acknowledging the worry, it’s just overriding it, trying to like mask in positive thoughts where it’s like, no, you do have to kind of acknowledge the worry and you know, sometimes it’s like, let let the worry know that you see it, you’re acknowledged, you know, and we’re gonna kind of move on then.
Maggie: But it, you can’t just cover and I’m happy, I’m great. You know, and do and do affirmations and just pretend it’s not even there. ’cause that also doesn’t help from personal experience.
Kristin: No, eventually it comes back out and then it’ll come back out with a vengeance if it’s something that we’re supposed to work on. So, I think I like to use gratitude in such a way that it can help me through some of the more difficult times, but I also wanna make sure that I address whatever’s underlying that’s so important.
Kristin: I have a saying in Courageous Destiny, that might sound a little harsh, but it’s let the poison rise. So let me see it, let me see it so I can address it. Let me see it, then I can [00:20:00] address it. And once I address it, then as soon as I don’t wanna feel that way anymore, or if I wanna say, I’m gonna address this, but I wanna do it later, and right now I’ve gotta go to work, or I got a speaking engagement, or I got this happening.
Kristin: I wanna be able to have some tools in my belt to be able to transmute that emotion and as something maybe a little bit more positive if I can to keep my energy up.
Maggie: I was at a yoga session and she was, it was a hot yoga session, so she’s like, if you need to throw up, you know, and some people laughed and she’s like, it’s poison leaving the body. Like why keep it in? You’ve got to let it out. And I was like, so when you say like, guilt, the poison rise, it is kind of like, I, I’m sorry, everyone, it’s kind of like reminds me of like, when you throw up, you’ve gotta get it out, you’ve gotta get it done, and then you’ve gotta move on, you know?
Maggie: And so if you keep suppressing it, you’re just gonna feel worse for a long time.
Kristin: Absolutely. Absolutely,
Barb: Great analogy. I get it. [00:21:00]
Barb: Kind of gross, but I get It
Barb: So, let’s talk about the moment you realized your marriage was ending. And woo,
Barb: let’s share what, how you stayed connected instead of abandoning, you know, kind of your own needs or maybe you did abandon your own needs for a while. I don’t know.
Kristin: So with my marriage, I had started coaching with my coach and I started from a place where I was actually on antidepressants and I was. I really needed to drop some pounds and I didn’t feel too healthy. I had high blood pressure and I started working through a process to raise my self worth, and I loved it so much.
Kristin: I decided to create a career off of it, and I kept evolving and I kept elevating, I couldn’t take any kind of complaint [00:22:00] anymore. I couldn’t take any kind of, well, we can’t do this. The world is ending kind of things. And it was just one day where I’m like, I’ve had one too many arguments and this isn’t helping either one of us.
Kristin: And I remember he was actually asleep.
Kristin: And I had this moment, I’m like, I can’t do this anymore. And I just walked up over there and I just walked upstairs and I woke him up and I said, now’s the time. We’re gonna be breaking up. You can go back to bed now. And I go, I’m gonna tell the kids. And I walked down and that’s something might sound harsh and weird, but I had been trying to move it along for like six months.
Kristin: And finally I’m just like, I have to rip this bandaid. And we just have to get this job done. So, that was the moment that I realized, I’m like, I can’t expand anymore and pretend like this is [00:23:00] okay.
Barb: So you
Barb: think the coaching helped you get to that moment?
Kristin: Yeah, it helped me raise myself worth enough to know that I wasn’t in the right place anymore. You know, and it’s funny because, you know, not to go too into his details, but he has evolved so much since that day.
Kristin: Like, I mean, I’m glad I did it for, for the both of us. Like I think that we were enabling each other and I think there’s a point with the coaching where I just saw that so vividly and I’m like, wow, if things keep going the way they’re going.
Kristin: I’m hypocrite because I’m not really living my courageous destiny. I’m shrinking myself to stay in this until maybe the kids are 18 and, and I’m like, do I want my children to have that example of a relationship? Not really.
Barb: How old were your children at the time?
Kristin: My children were, I wanna say they were [00:24:00] 11, so,
Kristin: well, it’s 2020. We got divorced in 2020.
Kristin: It was the final divorce, but I had told him probably in 2018, so yeah.
Maggie: And so it kind of seems like, the more you connected to yourself is kind of the way then it was almost like you were abandoning your needs. You did some coaching, and then you were able to connect to yourself to really feel like then this marriage needs to end.
Kristin: I was so clear. You know, ’cause what happens I think is there’s so many, so much meaning we can give a divorce or something big like that happening in our lives. And the meaning was, well, how am I gonna, how am I gonna pay for myself and all the kids? How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do that? And we make meanings.
Kristin: For everything and we can have like 10,000 meanings for one simple act of divorce, you know, and we can also, for me, I remember thinking it’s not that [00:25:00] bad. Like it isn’t that bad. And, and the day I went to go file. I believe it was the papers for dissolution, I remember going in there and being like, wow, we have eight of the 13 listed here. Eight of the 13 reasons. And I didn’t even think it was that bad.
Barb: Oh, so
Barb: when you said it wasn’t that bad, you were thinking your marriage wasn’t that bad.
Kristin: Yeah, because we get into a habit of putting up with things that don’t line up with us. It’s familiar and it almost becomes a comfort zone. You know, survival mode for many people can become a comfort zone. Things that we don’t want can become a comfort zone.
Kristin: And for me, my marriage had become a comfort zone and not the kind that you want. it was a very uncomfortable living in.
Barb: Yeah, but it’s like the devil that you know, right?
Kristin: Exactly, because that’s was this illusion of certainty to kind of bring [00:26:00] it full circle when you were talking about certainty earlier, like I think that nothing is certain.
Kristin: Nothing is certain, except for right in this moment, I have the ability to breathe and, and to create something.
Kristin: If I choose, you know, that’s what’s certain. I remember my coach saying to me, I go, gosh, ’cause I left a $400,000 career to become a coach and I had one, $200 client and you wanna talk about scary? I was like, oh my gosh. Many people would call that crazy.
Kristin: But yeah, it’s, it was, it was very, very scary.
Kristin: But I go, how do I do this? I know it’s my time. And he said, when something really fearful comes up, embrace the fear instead of pushing it away like it’s a friend,
Kristin: get to know it and move past it, And that’s what I started doing. And I’m like, well, is it a good? And I [00:27:00] believed that I was here to be a coach and help people raise their self-worth.
Kristin: So I believe that, that’s what God wanted me to do. And I’m like, who am I to say no to that? And I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s gonna be so uncomfortable. Because I did that, that’s why I can coach people through this today. I didn’t know it at the time. I didn’t really believe my mentor for some reason when they would say things like, you know, you’ve gotta walk the talk and that’s gonna be your way and your pathway to be an excellent coach.
Kristin: And I’m like, okay, but I didn’t realize it was gonna be, I have to really walk the talk and it was gonna happen one way or another,
Maggie: So was there any kind of quiet preparation that you were doing?
Kristin: oh, yes. One of the things was I got sober. One of the issues that I had had was there was an overactive, we’ll just say an [00:28:00] overactive use of alcohol and I got sober. I wanted to make sure that I mean, what a hypocrite would I be if like, Hey, you shouldn’t do that while I’m, you know, tipping back a few, you know, that never felt good.
Kristin: So I definitely that was a big part of what I did. I also did a lot of journaling. A lot of journaling. Like I got to know myself. One of the ways and tools that I used to get to know myself was asking myself questions in journaling, asking myself questions that my coach would tell me to ask.
Kristin: Books. I mean, it took me a good solid two years before I even got the nerve to ask for the divorce. I mean, it was a long time preparing and it was necessary because I mean, I really, really loved him. You know, I still do, a part of me always will, but I really loved him and [00:29:00] I didn’t understand at the time that how sick of a couple we were.
Kristin: Because if you look around, really, we just matched up with everybody else. Like there was no, you know, not to say that there’s bad couples all over the place, but I mean, it wasn’t like there was anything different from what we would see, at least in our, our group. So.
Barb: It is just, it’s fascinating to me that when you get coaching, and I think this happens a lot, you start seeing your world in a clear view, right? Like somebody wipes the glass off for you and says, look, look, this isn’t really a. How it should be, you know, this is not normalcy or you’re saying, I want something better and different.
Barb: I don’t know what it is, but something’s not right here. Like you’ve sensed it, you know? It’s, it’s different for everyone of course. But the coaching did seems like it really helped you realize with your own self-worth that [00:30:00] you needed, you could do more.
Kristin: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the coaching added consciousness and awareness to why I operated the way I operated. In the first three months of coaching, I had tripled my sales. I had been off of all of the, all of the antidepressants. I had lost my first 30 pounds, and I learned how to get outta my own way in many ways, that there were beliefs that I had had about who I was and the way the world worked.
Kristin: That didn’t move me forward toward the things that I want. And that happens a lot in life. We don’t, we don’t take a inventory of our belief system in our life on an ordinary basis.
Kristin: And that’s something very difficult to do by yourself too, because it’s like trying to look in a mirror on how you look before you go out on a date, but the mirror’s like pressed up against your nose, you know, it’s very hard to [00:31:00] see, you know, those kind of blind spots.
Maggie: And so what kind of coach did you hire? Because I know we hear about divorce coaches, we’ve talked about business coaches. I know there’s just life coaches. There’s also people turn to a therapist. So what kind of coach did you get? ’cause they seem to help you, you know, all around the board, which is really great.
Kristin: I hired a deserve level coach, and that was what his technology was. You get in life what your unconscious mind believes you deserve.
Kristin: Similar to NLP, similar to some of those technologies, but he had his own methodology and way to help people through and get past their, their egos, and to be able to expand their awareness enough to be able to see where they were stepping out of alignment with their thoughts and their actions. And he was extraordinary. He was doing it for years and years and years and years.
Maggie: Yeah. That’s great ’cause I know there’s, there’s a thousand different coaches out there and there’s a lot of different people who, who. Take [00:32:00] that title. But it’s hard kind of figuring out who’s the best fit for you and, and making that investment. But I mean, if you already tripled your sales in, in the couple months, you know, I mean, that’s already a great investment in itself.
Maggie: Much less, you know, health and finding out who you are, which is of course is priceless. But it’s, you know, really great that you had. Yeah. Such a great coach in your corner.
Kristin: Oh, he was fantastic. And the other thing is, is that when you, I can give you a blueprint today, I tell this to many people in sales, right? I’ll give you a blueprint, I’ll tell you exactly what actions to take in order to move your business to the next level. But you’re not gonna do ’em.
Kristin: And you’re gonna do, maybe you’ll do some of ’em, but you’re not gonna do ’em all.
Kristin: You’re gonna wanna do it your own way. And so to really get into the core of who you are, to me, is essential for true transformation. So, you know, you can get different results for a time, but with the work that I do, I like to have lasting results for life. Like you are actually empowering [00:33:00] yourself to create a version of yourself that has the things that you want.
Kristin: And it’s not the easy way. It’s not easy, you know, it can be very emotional work. It can be very deep. That’s why I call it courageous destiny. Try to give it a little bit of fun
Kristin: because it’s not always fun. It’s not always fun, but it’s very effective. And it’s very effective for lasting change and to truly sustain a new life.
Maggie: So I kind of wanna swing back around then to like your divorce and your journaling and all of those different things. You know, before involving lawyers, advisors, or even close friends. Like what are, you know, two or three questions you believe every woman should ask, you know, herself first, and maybe even sit down and journal about.
Kristin: I think a question, a very simple question is, is this easy for me? Does it give me energy? Is a really big question to ask yourself because [00:34:00] so many times we’re actually exhausted and we don’t know why. You know? And our exhaustion is usually a clue that something’s out of alignment. So I would say that does it make me happy? Right. Is this person adding? And the third one would be, is this person adding value to my life? Because what I learned the hard way is you can love somebody. You can love ’em with all your heart, but if your values don’t line up, it might not work right? Because you could lose respect and respect is really important.
Barb: Yeah. Interesting. You know, divorce is hard. It’s scary. You know, a lot of times women don’t wanna talk about it ’cause they feel ashamed for even thinking about divorce. But divorce happens. I think we owe ourselves the opportunity to be happy and to be healthy and to be sane. What would you say, what would you want her to [00:35:00] know right now, this woman who’s considering it, but feeling all these kind of negative feelings about herself for even thinking this.
Kristin: Well, I would love to tell her to consider that she was one of her girlfriends and what kind of grace would she give one of her girlfriends for having these thoughts? I think that’s really important because to make decisions from really high emotions is very difficult to do gracefully because
Kristin: the word gracefully again.
Kristin: And I think I would, I would, I would tell her that. You know, she’s not alone and look for other resources and talk to her friends that have gotten divorces talk to, you know, talk it out with trusted companions and friends, because I think that that’s really helpful. I talk to many of my girlfriends before I [00:36:00] actually went through with it.
Kristin: And I had a feel in integrity with myself, like this was the right decision. I wanted to make sure that it was gonna be the right decision. I had triplets, you know, there’s a saying that, you wanna be there for your kids, right? And you want ’em to have this certain kind of family, but then they get the example of bitterness and anger and resentment.
Kristin: And what kind of toll is that taking on them? I think those are all really important things to consider. It’s, it’s, yeah, it can be embarrassing getting a divorce in today’s society, but the toll that it would take on you to stay together if it’s not a happy household and the example that you’re setting for your kids, who they’re learning how to have a relationship from.
Maggie: Yeah, it’s really leading by example and treating yourself how you treat others almost.
Barb: Yeah, it is a big decision and you know, it impacts your [00:37:00] children deeply, but it does the other way too. Staying in the marriage impacts them just as deeply, maybe even more harmfully, you know, but also knowing that there’s the other side of divorce where people, like you said, with you and your husband, happier, healthier.
Barb: You both have grown.
Kristin: Yeah, he’s even tan. I kinda make fun of him now. I was like, he’s gonna the health club every day. I ran into him at the health club. I’m like. Who are you?
Kristin: He is doing great now and, and that’s so nice to see. And I prayed for that for so many years to see him happy and to see him healthy.
Kristin: And I think the other thing that I think is so important is that you can still love somebody and release them.
Kristin: You don’t have to hate them, you don’t have to get ugly thoughts and things like that. You know, one of my favorite sayings is ‘I’m gonna send them blessings and I am going to [00:38:00] change me’ ’cause I had a role in that too. And to really take responsibility for my role in the demise of our marriage was really critical.
Kristin: Even if it was just staying, like that’s, that’s partially my role too.
Maggie: Yeah, this has been a lot of great information and it, it’s exciting to kind of see where your journey has gone and how, you know, just this starting some coaching sessions really has kind of changed the trajectory, changed the job, changed, you know, the relationship and all these different things. And so we appreciate you kind of coming on and sharing that with us.
Maggie: Just kind of share a bit of your journey and so there is a question we do like to ask. Everyone who’s a guest on our show and that is what is your own definition of financial freedom?
Kristin: Oh, that’s a good one. My definition of financial freedom is that [00:39:00] everything is just handled. You know, I’ve got plenty of zeros in the bank account. I have money to invest. I have all of my bills are like on auto payment and there’s like never a thought about I gonna, right? I can have any subscription I want.
Kristin: And it’s also having the knowledge of what, how money works,
Kristin: you know, and being empowered that way.
Kristin: So that would be my definition of financial freedom.
Barb: Sneezed on the truth.
Kristin: Yeah.
Barb: Truth. Well, this has been fantastic. I appreciate you so much sharing your journey and delving into all the pieces and parts of your reason for divorce, your coaching, you know, your children, all of that. And, you know, life is hard, right? Like you said, you left a [00:40:00] $400,000 career to really be courageous and live your destiny. See what I did there.
Kristin: I love that.
Barb: yeah, and sharing your, your story is powerful, so I appreciate you Kristin. And thank you for coming on our pod today and sharing with our audience.
Maggie: Well, thank you everyone for tuning in and we’ll be back again next week. Until then, be financially fearless.
Outro: You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and [00:41:00] help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless.
The Essential Business Insurance Every Woman-Owned Business Needs in 2026 with Carmen Alvarez
Business insurance isn’t exciting.
But losing everything you’ve worked for is a lot worse.
This week on Women & Money: The Shit We Don’t Talk About, we’re digging into business insurance without the jargon, the fear tactics, or the overwhelm.
We’re joined by Carmen Alvarez, owner of The Insurance Pros and a Purse Strings Approved Professional, who makes insurance make sense for women business owners. Carmen strips this topic down to what actually matters so you can protect your business without blowing your budget or your energy.
In this conversation, Carmen breaks down why general liability is non-negotiable, why being “too small” is actually the riskiest place to be, and how the right insurance gives you permission to think bigger without fear. We also talk about real life scenarios where missing coverage almost shut businesses down, why waiting until something goes wrong is the biggest mistake women make, and how to layer coverage intentionally instead of buying everything at once.
This episode is supported by Randall Franklin of Franklin Wealth Management, who works with female entrepreneurs and business owners to create personalized financial strategies that support their entire life journey, not just their business. Randall’s approach starts by understanding the full picture, both financial and non-financial, so your plan reflects what matters most to you. He helps women navigate the added pressure of balancing family, work, and major financial decisions with greater clarity and confidence. If you’re ready to gain clarity, see the big picture, and move forward with confidence, you can schedule a complimentary here 👈 Learn more at www.franklinwealthmanagement.com
Investment advice offered through OneAscent Financial Services, LLC, d/b/a Franklin Wealth Management, a Registered Investment Adviser with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply any certain degree of skill or training.
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Stay connected for more real talk about women, money, divorce, and financial independence:
Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.
Full Episode Transcript
(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)
Barb:[00:00:00] You know, Maggie, more and more women are opening their own businesses every day, which is so, so exciting for me because it’s so empowering to have your own business and to really do what you love to do, especially if you have a passion for something that you love, that’s what it’s all about. And then comes all of the other things you need to do to run your business, right. All the icky, sticky wiki things that you’re like, what? Yuck. But you gotta do the stuff, right?
Maggie: And one of those is business insurance. Do other countries have as much insurance like we do?
Barb: I don’t know. But in this country we do.
Maggie: we gotta insure everything and everyone wants to take everything to court, and that’s why we have insurance.
Barb: Yeah. And you know, it is something that many, many, of us put off lots of different reasons. you know, a lot of people are like, oh, insurance, this, that, you know, it’s a money grab, whatever. But when you talk to people like our guest, Carmen, you really [00:01:00] understand why it is so, so important to have insurance. And the way that she put it that really struck for me was, you know, you work so hard for the work that you do and the passion that you have. You don’t want one small little blip to pull the rug out from underneath you and everything is gone. Right, which could happen.
Maggie: And things could be like an honest mistake, but sometimes you can hire like one bad apple and you know, there it goes. You know, you wanna have the control and so you wanna be able to be the narrator and you gotta protect yourself. It’s a crazy world out there.
Barb: Or just the protection that you know, it’s okay if anything happens. I’m protected, right? That you can keep moving on and moving ahead and growing your business and you’re protected. Especially if you have a broker like what Carmen is, that’s the person who shops for you, right? Shops all the right insurance companies to make sure that you have a good, legit company that suits what your business is and has the best competitive both price, but also coverage for [00:02:00] you. You’re not over-insured. Not under-insured. And she explains things really well, which I think is of course the best thing. It’s not just transactional, but you really learn what it is that you’re insuring. So as boring as business insurance sounds, I found it really, really interesting this conversation.
Maggie: It made me realize that, I mean, it’s never something I would just go and try and figure out myself. That would be a waste of my time and it would still not be done right. You know what I mean? Like I, I would have to hire a broker to help me. I don’t know why you wouldn’t,
Barb: Right. Just like when you buy, you know, any other kind of insurance, auto insurance, homeowner’s, insurance, whatever. This is just another line of insurance as a business owner. And one other thing is she’s like, look, it makes you legit. You’re a legit business owner. You’re insured. And if you wanna grow and have contracts with other partners.
Maggie: When you grow, not if, but when.
Barb: When you grow and have contracts with other clients and partners, they’re gonna be looking for that. So it’s, you know, it’s another one of those, put it on your [00:03:00] list of things you need to check off and do. Just like you need an attorney, just like you need to get licensed and you need, you know, there are things that you need to do to set up a business.
Barb: It’s no small feat. So, as glorious and wonderful as having your own business is, there are many, many administrative tasks that you need to fund, and business insurance is one of them. I would put it right up there as one of the most important in order to protect yourself and your business and all of your very, very hard, hard work.
Maggie: And so let’s listen to Carmen so we could figure out where the heck to get started.
Barb: You got it?
Maggie: Let’s dive in.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially [00:04:00] fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.
Maggie: Today. We have a special guest on our podcast. We have Carmen Alvarez, who is one of our Purse Strings Approved Professionals, but also just an expert in business insurance, which I don’t think we’ve talked about after like 120 plus episodes. So I’m so excited to finally get this covered. So, Carmen, before we dive into all of our questions, can you share a little bit about who you are and what you do with the audience?
Carmen: My name is Carmen Alvarez. I own the Insurance Pros. I do everybody’s favorite boring thing, insurance. I’ve said this before and I always say this like when we were in fourth grade, at least when I was in fourth grade, they used to do this career day where they would bring all, you know, parents in from different careers and they would have little tables and talk to us about what they do and nobody in fourth grade was like, I wanna be an insurance agent. That’s not a thing. This is one [00:05:00] of those fields that you fall in, like out of necessity or because maybe it’s in the family. And so, yeah, I didn’t think this is where my life was gonna take me, but it did and yeah, I enjoy it. I will say that this year in particular was hard with all of the hoopla politically ’cause it did greatly impact health insurance in particular.
Maggie: So do you do all types of insurance or what insurance do you do? You do. I guess there’s a thousand types.
Carmen: So it is a full service brokerage firm, which means all of the things but I always say this, and as business owners, especially women, we are used to doing all of the things all of the time, but that’s not feasible, right? And so I have a great team. So as a firm, we handle business liability, employee benefits, which is really my main focus as well as home and auto.
Carmen: But again, my personal focus is the employee benefits side of the business.
Maggie: Awesome. And so [00:06:00] we know business owners like avoid insurance until typically it’s too late and then you’re like, oh, I kind of wish I had that, you know, something went wrong. So what’s the real risk of waiting too long to get that kind of insurance?
Carmen: You know, insurance is not like Amazon prime. You can’t click it on after the problem shows up. You know what I mean? And so once there’s a claim, a lawsuit, a diagnosis, or even a hint of risk carriers will exclude or decline you altogether. And that’s the risk, the biggest risk. It’s not the loss, it’s being uninsurable when you know you finally care or when something arises.
Barb: Yeah. And you know, sometimes business owners don’t know what they don’t know about business insurance. So let’s dive into that a little bit. So, when women have a business, like how do they know what kind of business insurance they’re gonna need and kind of what kind of costs are involved and things like that, how do you determine what kind of insurance you’re gonna need?
Carmen:[00:07:00] When anybody starts a business, the first thing liability insurance, always. Like you don’t want to, that’s not something you wanna skip. It protects your business from other people’s problems, clients, vendors, the public. It’s usually very, very affordable and it allows you to sign contracts, you know, it allows you to sign lease space.
Carmen: 99.9% of if you wanna open up a brick and mortar or just even like an office space, anywhere, they’re gonna wanna see your general liability. And it allows you to partner with larger companies as well. And I always tell people like, anything else, the foundation is important. It doesn’t mean you buy everything, but it does mean you need to build the floor before you decorate your house.
Carmen: Like you can’t, you know what I mean? You can’t walk around right with all of the bells and whistles and like not the main thing. And that the general liability piece is the most important [00:08:00] for sure
Barb: So when you’re talking about general liability, and I’m thinking small business now, you might have some women out there who own a nail salon. You might have some women who do consulting. You might have women who do yoga shops. You might have some women who do something out of their home.
Barb: So it’s quite different versus if you’re doing something out of your home versus if you have a brick and mortar versus if you have, there’s so many different types of insurance,
Barb: where do you start?
Carmen: Again, the general liability piece is the primary piece. If your business interacts with humans in any way, you need liability coverage.
Carmen: Got it. Okay.
Carmen: Now, there’s conversation to be had where some people might need that plus something called professional liability. So accountants, insurance brokers, you know.
Carmen: An insurance broker, they won’t even give us a contract without a professional liability in place. So if we don’t have a contract, we can’t talk about that product. We can’t sell it. So there are certain industries that are very specific in regards to what [00:09:00] liability coverage is needed first and foremost and usually that’s either that PL, the professional liability versus the general liability. But the minute you have an office space that is outside of your home, that general liability needs to typically also be in place.
Maggie: And so for that, not the general liability, but the, the first one you said, how much is that like a month? Like like $20 a month, 200, 2000. Like what are we kind of talking in a range for? Because I know as when you start a business, it’s just like every bill is being slapped at you, from registration and websites and everything else.
Maggie: So what is kind of the cost? I know of course it’s a range, what are we kind of looking at?
Carmen: So general liability can typically cost from the lowest I’ve ever seen is like 300. A lot of carriers have this minimum premium, like, it could have cost a hundred, but we’re not charging less than 300 type of thing. I think that number’s moved up to 500 for the [00:10:00] year. Professional liability is going to depend on what you do and how much you make.
Carmen: For instance, and I’m gonna talk about insurance, professional liability ’cause insurance broker. They’re gonna ask questions like, how is your business broken up? Like, how much of your businesses and employee benefits versus property and casualty under that umbrella falls like general liability, workman’s comp, home, and like they ask you these questions and they want you to break it up.
Carmen: And then how much do you think you are going to make for the year? Liability Insurance Premium is going to be tied to what you do and how much exposure there is and the best way for an insurance company to understand the risk is to understand how exposed you are, and that’s typically through the amount of dollars you’re projecting to make for the year. A company that makes a hundred thousand dollars a year is not going to pay the same amount in insurance than a company that brings in a million, right? Because that billion dollar [00:11:00] company is obviously exposed a whole lot more.
Maggie: And so how does having kind of the right insurance actually make a small business more competitive when it comes to like hiring or partnerships or growth?
Carmen: So different things for different reasons. Employee benefits is going to give you an edge because not only does it give you credibility with those that you wanna hire. But the people that you do hire, you retain them so they stay longer when they feel protected. . And that’s a big sticking point right now with people, especially with all of the things going on around the conversations of health insurance in general at large.
Carmen: I often have these conversations with people where they’re like, man, I just need to get a part-time job that offers health insurance at this point because it’s so expensive on the individual market unless you qualify for a subsidy, right? In regards to liability and workman’s comp and [00:12:00] all of the other things that cover your business partnerships, corporations won’t touch uninsured vendors. Insurance gives permission to the owners to think bigger without as much fear.
Barb: That’s interesting when you look at it from that perspective as well.
Carmen: It’s a confidence happen.
Carmen: You know what I mean?
Barb: And it says you’re a legit, you know? For sure.
Let’s take a quick pause to hear from this week’s episode sponsor. Lemme ask you something, you’ve built a successful business, but does your financial plan actually support your whole life beyond just your work? Hi, I’m Randall Franklin with Franklin Wealth Management in Madisonville, Kentucky. I work with female entrepreneurs in business owners like you to create personalized strategies that support your entire life.
Not just your business. Women often face added pressure to balance family work and major financial decisions without clear guidance. Too often it feels like you’re expected to choose between your career and your life. My [00:13:00] approach starts by understanding your full picture, both financial and non-financial, so it’s your plan actually works for you.
If you’re ready to take a step back, see the big picture, and get clear on what matters most, let’s start there. You can find the link to schedule a call with me in the show notes. And I would love to help you take that next step with confidence. Now back to our show.
Barb: So what’s the biggest insurance myth you hear from women business owners that you wish you could just retire immediately?
Carmen: Too small to need insurance.
Barb: Can you expand on that a bit?
Carmen: For sure. When I talk to people and maybe they’re talking about health insurance or their home and auto, and I know they’re a business owner, they’re like, oh, I just work from home and I just do this on the side, or whatever.
Carmen: And the truth is, the small businesses are the most exposed, they really are because if you make an error or something happens, people, and we are just in such a litigious state, right? You hear it all the time for all of the things. Some valid, some [00:14:00] not, and it just doesn’t matter.
Carmen: Once that lawsuit hits, you’re not protected if you don’t have certain things in place. You’re gonna lose it a lot faster than a larger company who has the means to fight and argue and, you know, place their bets on their position. So yeah, being small doesn’t make you invincible. It makes you vulnerable.
Barb: Mm-hmm. Got it.
Maggie: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And so do you also offer you know, the big thing is cybersecurity. Then also, you know, we’re all on our computers and all the cybersecurity. Do you offer cybersecurity insurance as well?
Carmen: yes. So cyber insurance has definitely just really grown in the space these last few years, and I encourage everyone to make sure a lot of these general liability or BOP policies. BOP stands for Business Owner Policy where it’s kind of like a, I don’t wanna call it a hybrid. It’s like a package [00:15:00] deal.
Carmen: It includes the general liability and it includes ensuring, your computer and like your business property. Some of it includes maybe product, maybe you sell, maybe you make candles, you know, outta your home even. And it’ll include like the inventory. And a lot of these box are now including you know, a nominal cyber package as well, like 25,000.
Carmen: And that’s small potatoes. If you ever are in a situation where there’s a cyber breach and somebody can actually like, connect the dots that their information was taken and used and abused because of the cyber breach that happened through your company. That’s huge. That’s a huge, huge risk right now.
Carmen: You know, anybody who stores information, who, any of those things, your, your, you know, leaving yourself open to some [00:16:00] major issues financial and legal. I’m sure everybody gets those notices. I get one of those notices like once a month where, hey, we had a data breach and we just need to let you know, and it doesn’t look like, you know, anything’s happened, but we see that your information could have been compromised and here’s a free, you know, check your credit score for a year.
Carmen: Those cost money. Think about the mail. Think about the fact that you’re paying for that free check-in or whatever. That’s not gonna cost 25,000. You know what I mean? Like, so you have to really understand, you know, what it is that you do, how you’re doing it. Everybody’s doing everything digitally now. You know, and so just kind of really take the steps for making sure that you’ve closed the gap on that exposure, for sure.
Maggie: Yeah, I know. I just hear so, I mean, we hear it all the time on the news or whatever about all these data breaches and all these things, and I know [00:17:00] there’s so much, you know, cybersecurity you can do on your computer and things like that. But when your focus is making candles, it’s a lot to manage. I mean, it’s another world or you know, and so it is, I’m glad there’s some coverage on that as well because it’s a lot, it’s overwhelming and you don’t know what you don’t know half the time.
Barb: Yeah, that’s exactly it. That’s it, right? Yeah.
Barb: Can you give us a real example of, you know, where insurance protected a woman owned business from something that could have shut her down.
Carmen: I have a perfect example. This one falls into EPLI, which is employment liability insurance, and that’s a different insurance policy that you wanna have in place if indeed you have employees, right? And in this scenario, I had a client who, we went through the whole package.
Carmen: My job is to research what you have, review it, compare it to what the other things are that are available, and read through the [00:18:00] documentation to see if there’s any gaps. And when I went back to her, I was like, you’re over-insured here. ’cause that’s a thing too. You don’t need to be over-insured.
Carmen: You know, you’re underinsured here. And by the way, you have a staff of like nine people you might wanna put in EPLI. And she’s like, I don’t think I need that. Okay. by the way, this is a photography studio. About six months later, she calls me in a panic and she’s a really good friend of mine and she’s like, I need to talk to you.
Carmen: Did we ever move forward with that EPL? I’m like, no. And I forwarded her the email because I always recap my meetings like, and I said, no, you said that we would touch base on it the next year. And she said, I have a problem. And I said, what happened? And you know, this photography studio was doing boudoir photos.
Carmen: They were opening that up, which is, I don’t know if you’ve ever, if you know what that is. It’s like sexy photos. You [00:19:00] know, I don’t wanna say scantily cla, it’s not, it’s just like, you know, you take pictures, tasteful pictures in lingerie, whatever, and they had this person from, I think Canada come in that was a specialist in that field and basically was doing mockups and like, they had like a whole training session of like two days or whatever.
Carmen: Anyway, there was one employee who stated that she felt that the entire training session was inappropriate and likened it to sexual harassment, you know, because it, it’s, we’re talking about boudoir, like some of them, sometimes you’re naked, and there was a whole thing around that and she was adamant that she felt like this was inappropriate and you know, and so we walked through that and talked through that and it didn’t go anywhere, but it could have, and that’s the thing that would’ve [00:20:00] protected her for that.
Carmen: General liability’s not gonna protect you for that. You know, workman’s comp doesn’t protect you for that. And so the EPLI had it been in place, if it would’ve moved forward, would’ve protected her. Now, thankfully, they were able to come to an agreement. She had to, you know, the lady quit and she gave her severance.
Carmen: Like, she just kind of like paid it out to be like, okay, here you go. Thanks, you know, for your service. But it’s things like that that can arise. And, you know, she put better things in place like when you hire people, if you’re gonna hire somebody for that department, make sure you have like an ironclad business, you know, contract for them understanding what it is that they’re doing, signing off on it, all of the things.
Carmen: I introduced her to a, one of my best friends who happens to be a business attorney, and she was able to put together documentation for her that, you know. Like employee contracts that were [00:21:00] specific to that department of her company.
Maggie: it sounds overwhelming and you hate when it’s like, it’s always six months after you talked about it, you know? And we’ll come back to it in six months and it’s a thing is you don’t think you need it and then it’s like, shit, I need it, you know?
Carmen: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I’ll give you another quick example. And this is real. and it’s. Close to my heart because I just went through something. This last quarter I was at a health scare and, you know, it could have been the Big C and it wasn’t.
Carmen: And I’m thankful and grateful. But another friend of mine who also owns a business who I do all of their insurance or, you know, I talked about short term disability. And I was like, why don’t you, you know, provide this, we can do a carve out for, the management company where it’s employer of paid and everybody else can do voluntary, and she basically was like, you know, I will check on that later, not right now. Then she decided, okay, let’s do it. [00:22:00] And we did all the paperwork, which she was traveling and doing all these kinds of things and she never solidified the contract. And right now my very good friend was indeed diagnosed with cancer and is going through radiation treatment.
Carmen: And the first thing she did was say, did we ever solidify that short-term disability? The answer was
Barb: I am sure you hate giving that answer.
Carmen: Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. It happened the most during COVID, you know, employers came to me and said, did we ever finally do this? Or, you know, whether it was sometimes life, like it’s so inexpensive to put together an employer paid life policy for your employees. It’s like three, five bucks a month per employee when you’re doing it in a group.
Carmen: Yeah, you’re getting 25,000, but it’s something, right. And the answer has [00:23:00] been, you know, was no. And so now, or not now. ’cause I always present it. I always bring it up. But I am a little bit more, not pushy, but I definitely talk about these things and just make it clear like this is a really inexpensive way to protect yourself, your employees and so I definitely bring it up a lot more often and during my check-ins, not just at Regal because it feels terrible to say to someone, no, you know, I, I reached out to you, but you were here.
Carmen: You were there, and it’s just such a terrible thing. And so now, my good friend is going through these therapies and, and radiation treatments, but also working. I saw her postli. She was at a networking event and I’m thinking, oh my gosh, you know?
Barb: Yeah, it’s tough. It’s tough.
Maggie: It’s tough and it, it’s just, you know, no one has the goggles to see the future. And so it’s always like, is Carmen upselling me or do I really need this? You know, as a small [00:24:00] business owner, every expense is really important. So you don’t wanna overpay, but you don’t wanna underpay. Like it’s always teetering these fine lines.
Maggie: And even your example of the women who started talking about it and. Started the paperwork but just never locked it down. I mean, we hear a lot about that with estate plans as well, you know, where we’re so close to the finish line and it needs that one more signature or, you know, notarization and it’s, and we kind of just push it off even though we’re, we’re 90% there, you know?
Maggie: And so it’s just, it’s so hard ’cause you just never know when something will happen. No one has those future goggles. And if you do send me a pair, I’ll send you my address like.
Carmen: And in this environment where everything just feels like financial pressure, right? Like all the things are so expensive. I always tell people, insurance isn’t gonna make you money, but it can save your business.
Carmen: We put so much into our businesses. It’s like birthing a child, right?
Carmen: It’s a constant thing. It’s running in the [00:25:00] back of our head, even when we’re trying to zone out or veg out or bed, whatever, it doesn’t matter. And then for just one thing that could have been handled by a policy, it’s just, it’s devastating. And so. Does it make you money? No. It’s gonna cost you a little bit of the money that you make, but it can definitely save business.
Maggie: And so for those business owners, you know, listening who feel overwhelmed or behind, you know, what is the smartest kind of first step that they can take this month to get covered without, blowing the budget, without being overwhelmed, all the different things.
Carmen: Yeah. I would tell people to stop Googling get a coverage audit, audit a broker and start small layer intentionally. Nobody starts a business to keep it small, right? Like we have goals and we have, you know, a vision layer intentionally, you know, get the checklist and make it a part of [00:26:00] your business strategy.
Carmen: If you just opened up, get that general liability in place maybe professional liability, depending again on what you do. Sometimes that is, it’s, it’s not optional, right? You can’t move forward without it. But then as things come in, make sure that you start checking off that list. Make sure you find the broker that you feel comfortable checking in with on a quarterly basis.
Carmen: Or set it up on your, calendar to do so. You don’t need all of the things. You just need the first right thing, and we go from there. As they say, progress beats perfection, right?
Barb: So I know with homeowners you pay every six months or monthly or whatever every year.
Carmen: Every year is a renewal, but you should pay, usually
Barb: through your loan payment or whatever, but, and then autos every six months. What, how do you pay for your homeowner or for your business insurance?
Carmen: Same. You can either do it on an annual basis, you can do it on a quarterly basis, you can do it on a monthly basis. And [00:27:00] just like home and auto, sometimes there’s fees. If you do it on a monthly basis, sometimes there’s higher fees. If you’re using a credit card versus a checking account, that’s gonna depend on the carrier you use and what like payment system that they’re using.
Carmen: You know what I mean? So,
Barb: So you have options there.
Maggie: Then how often should people like check back in with you and reassess their coverage or see if they need to add more? Is that quarterly? A six months? Every year, every five years.
Carmen: So I tell people when we, when I do an intake, and let’s say you move forward with me, you know, one of the questions that I’m gonna ask right away is, you know, what did you make last year? What’s your projected gross income. And I always tell people if you land a whale right?
Carmen: And that projected income doubles or just goes up. Anything I think above 15, 20% of what you thought was gonna be check in with your broker [00:28:00] and let them know that so that they can edit your policy, okay? At renewal, of course, there’s your, your broker should be checking with you prior to see if there’s something better out there.
Carmen: Now, when I say this, you know, sometimes people are just always price chasing. That’s a red flag for carriers. So you wanna be careful if you’re gonna save $2, that’s not worth it if you are going to save a huge amount of money. I’m not in anybody’s pocket. I don’t know what a huge amount of money is.
Carmen: It could be different for everybody else, right? Like for some people it’s like, even if a hundred dollars would, would be helpful right now. But you have to be cognizant of, you know, al also having a good. I don’t know if rapport is the right word, but like a good track record, right? With your, with your carrier.
Carmen: ’cause they do pay attention to those things and rate you accordingly. But yeah, you wanna make sure that is this the best price and that’s important in [00:29:00] the liability space or in the business insurance space because different companies change their appetites often. You know, this carrier might love this industry for now, and then all of a sudden they don’t want that industry. Maybe too many claims came in for them specifically, not because of you, but maybe others, or they know something that we don’t in regards to that specific industry. And so they jack up the rates really high. And that’s their way of pushing you off.
Maggie: Very sly.
Carmen: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And so that’s kind of what. You know, a broker should be paying attention to, because we get those clues throughout the year. We can see like carriers communicate to us what their desired risks are and when we see that, that means that they’re giving prime premiums to that specific industry.
Carmen: I’m seeing that happen a lot right now with manufacturing. Last year I saw it a lot with [00:30:00] auto shops, auto body shops. Every single one of my auto body shops, I had to move from one particular carrier that was really favorable to another, that became extremely favorable, and the one that they were on all of a sudden just really jacked up rates.
Carmen: They just didn’t want the business anymore for whatever. They don’t tell you why.
Barb: Interesting. Is there, like, do you have to wait to move or can you move your policy at any time?
Carmen: You move it at any time. You can move it at any time and you will get a refund prorated just like, just like anything home and auto. However, there are some carriers that will charge it’s called a minimum premium. So if you move within, 30, 60 days, they might charge you a portion of that premium, but for the most part that’s usually like in specialty lines for the most part. If you move, they’ll give you your refund back and you forward with another carrier.
Barb: Okay. Got it.
Maggie: This has been a [00:31:00] lot of of great information, you know, really gets just the conversation started, I feel like, ’cause you know, then you have to go into your business and what your focus is and those different things.
Carmen: Yeah, we talk a lot about why we start our businesses or why especially women. Especially women. And for us it’s, it’s a few things. I mean, for me it’s a lot of things, but typically it falls under the camp of I want financial freedom. I want to be able to go to my kids’ soccer game, you, you know, and not have to ask permission.
Carmen: I don’t want a ceiling to my income. As we know, women are still underpaid. And you know, when we compare ourselves to men in corporate America, period, full stop. And so what is your definition of financial freedom, right? It that differ between us, for some people, it’s a yacht. That’s not [00:32:00] it for me.
Carmen: But, you know, and I’m not judging. It’s not panicking when things happen in life and things happen in life all the time. It’s just knowing one unexpected moment won’t undo everything we’ve worked for. And for me specifically, earlier I talked about fourth grade career class day or whatever, when we are, you know, looking at these people who come in and talk to us about their careers and how nobody like ran to the insurance broker to see what, what is it that you do?
Carmen: I wanna do that. You know, for me, financial freedom was taught to me by watching my mom not have it. And it wasn’t because she wasn’t a hard worker. It was, you know, there were all of these things that, and it’s why I took the path that I took. I’ll never forget my mom after working almost 30 years, you know, and asking me to go with her to this meeting where they [00:33:00] were gonna explain like the retirement route for them and she worked at UIC hospital.
Carmen: And at UIC hospital, I don’t know if anybody is familiar, like it’s half publicly funded, half privately funded. They don’t get social security, they get a pension or that’s, you know, that’s what they were paying into. And you know, I went with her and we talked, they talked about the. Pension and the this and the that and Medicare.
Carmen: And I’ll never forget saying like, Hey mom, we need to go to the 401k meeting. The meeting’s not over because she was ready to break for lunch. And she was like, I didn’t participate in that. And I was so stunned because I almost 30 years you a match of like, I think it was like six or 7%. What do you mean?
Carmen: And her response was, I didn’t understand it and I didn’t wanna like let go of any more money. I was a single mom and it just angered me so much. And I sat down and explained the compound interest. The fact that they were matching the fact that she [00:34:00] probably wouldn’t have noticed, you know, even she would’ve put in two or 3%, you know, and she was like, nobody broke that down to me, the way you’re breaking it down.
Carmen: Nobody said that. And I have had that same conversation. Nevermind that my mom was an immigrant and her first language was Spanish, and that in itself, right? These people come from other countries where there aren’t regulations on insurance. That’s not really a thing. Like they literally put their money in jars, mason jars, and under the mattress, they don’t trust government.
Carmen: I mean, apparently we shouldn’t be either, but that’s a whole other conversation. but I’ve had this, that same conversation with regular Americans who have been here for generations. I have sat down with them when I talked to ’em about life insurance and other things, and they’re like, yeah, we don’t have any of that.
Carmen: What, like, I, it’s just shocking to me. And it’s not because they’re dumb, it’s not because they’re lazy, it’s not because they’re cheap. It’s because they didn’t [00:35:00] have all of the information. And I’m not a gatekeeper. Like, this is not something that should be kept. and it just, it’s heartbreaking for me.
Carmen: And so financial freedom for me is knowing all of the things and making decisions accordingly. That’s going to fit my narrative. And, you know, help me and my family. You know, when we talk about wealth gaps, generational wealth gaps, this is one of the biggest reasons that they exist.
Maggie: I almost don’t think I could tell your mom how it works. I’d feel so bad for explaining all the interest lost and everything else. I just would just be like, nevermind. We’ll talk about that.
Barb: And that’s why we started Purse Strings for exactly that reason. No one’s giving this information and explaining. Why they need to get started on some of these things and why they should come first. And you know, more women, like you said, are opening their own businesses every day. And so no one’s really talking to them about business insurance and how it works and what you need to get started with and what it [00:36:00] typically costs and how you pay for it.
Barb: That’s what we’re here for. You know, let’s start. Asking the questions, talk to Carmen. Let’s ask us. You know, we’ll get you in front of the right people. But you go into business ’cause you have a passion for something you love and it’s, sorry, Carmen, not typically insurance, but thank God Carmen knows all the answers.
Barb: We can go to you to get the answers right, but yeah, it’s women helping women understand all that you need to know when you are starting your business.
Carmen: And to be clear, my mom is fine. She was very frugal. I will say that things that we were able to do 30 years ago, 15 years ago, we’re not able to frugal our way into wealth now, right. Like, she was able to do some things. She was able to buy a house on her own and she ended up retiring.
Carmen: I think she stayed on for, ’cause we did the math about the pension and at some point. If you stay too long, it’s like nothing or like, you know, so I was like, okay, if you do two more [00:37:00] years, you’ll get this much more. And I tried to like, you know, adjust it to cola, the, you know, inflation and like lot, you know, the presumed cost of living adjustment, which, who would’ve thunk we would be in the situation we’re in today, right?
Carmen: So she was able to put squirrel away some things and, and do what she needed to do, which is even more infuriating ’cause I know that she would’ve been able to do so much more had she participated in that. So to your point, I just think that, people don’t become fearless by avoiding fear.
Carmen: You gotta get through it. You gotta understand risk. But if you don’t have somebody who is going to explain it to you with not with the jargon and all of the acronyms and like stop, like none of that is necessary just in layman’s terms. Not because people are slow or not, it’s just, it’s not what you do.
Carmen: And so, [00:38:00] you know, that’s another pet peeve of mine when I hear sometimes, you know, insurance speak and it’s like, why? Like they don’t, they don’t know what that is. Like, just tell them what it is. Like, you know, you needed the source and a dictionary and a, you know, and chat PT on the side to be like, that’s wild.
Maggie: Well then on your answer, you kind of already leaned into our last question of, you know, what is your own definition of financial freedom? Do you wanna add any more to that? You were, you’re doing a great ex explanation earlier.
Carmen: No, I just, for me, it’s understanding risk. It’s making sure that for me, financial freedom is, choice is having, choice is being able to say yes or no to things. We have to build to that, right? If when you’re starting a new business, there is no financial freedom, you are a slave to your business for the first couple of years.
Carmen: But if what you have in mind is being able to breathe and not [00:39:00] have to work every single hour, unless that’s your jam, right? But like every single hour of every single day, because if you don’t, there is famine, you know, that’s not it, right? And so if you don’t have the protections in place, and that is the life that you’re living, and then something happens, you’re gonna start from zero.
Carmen: You’re gonna just throw it out, out and just like, forget it. I’m just gonna go get a job. Like, you know what I mean? And so thinking about those things and having those protections in place first and foremost will assist you to have whatever version of financial freedom it is that you have. For me, it’s not having red bottoms or, and Maybach, although I don’t know, I think they’re kind of ugly at all that, but that’s not what it is for me.
Carmen: It’s just being able to take a day, like after this podcast, I am taking my kid to the shed aquarium. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I [00:40:00] just wanna hang out with her and like, I can do that. If I was working a regular nine to five, I probably wouldn’t be able to, I will have my phone unless somebody is literally on fire.
Carmen: It’s not that, you know, like it’ll be fine. I’ll take care of it, but I can do that.
Maggie: I love it and I’m so jealous you’re going into the she say hello to the penguins for me.
Barb: I love that she wants to go the shed with you. That’s fabulous.
Carmen: Yeah. Well, she’s going to school to be a vet, so it doesn’t surprise me. ’cause I, she knows I’m, the zoo is not happening. Like, it’ll have to be an indoor, although today is seemingly nice, but it’s supposed to rain and I just off my hair, we’re not doing right.
Barb: You look fabulous.
Maggie: Well, thank you Carmen, so much for coming, sharing your expertise, opening this conversation as it’s so essential for business owners. Like you said. I mean, our businesses are babies and so we don’t want anything to happen. So knowing that we can just purchase some protection, have it in place, have you on our team is essential.
Maggie: So encourage any listeners, you know, reach out to Carmen, just [00:41:00] get the conversation started. You know, do that assessment and see where you stand and just. Like you said, take that first step. Don’t you know, not all at once, just one step at a time and, and we’ll make it through. So thank you so much, Carmen.
Maggie: We appreciate you and your time.
Maggie: All right, talk to everyone soon. Bye.
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