Release the Emotions Driving Your Financial Decisions with Bari Tessler

Release the Emotions Driving Your Financial Decisions with Bari Tessler

Your money story started way before your first paycheck.

This week we’re sitting down with Bari Tessler, a Financial Therapist and a pioneer in the Financial Therapy field. She has a Masters degree in Somatic Psychology from Naropa University, 1998. She then ran a bookkeeping business for therapists and artists. In 2001, she merged all her training and created a somatic-based Financial Therapy methodology that she has been teaching for 24 years. She is also the founder of The Art of Money, a financial therapy program and a Mentor Program for therapists, coaches and financial professionals.

Bari breaks down why 90% of our money decisions are based on emotions, not logic, and what to actually do about it. She shares her signature Body Check-In tool, why couples fight about money even when everything else is great, and how to start having real money conversations with your partner without it turning into World War III at the kitchen table.

Bari’s reminder is that the way you were raised to think about money shapes every financial decision you make today. Join us for next week’s Money Talks, we’re digging into money stories, emotional patterns around spending and saving, and how to rewrite the ones that aren’t working for you. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!  

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About the Hosts

Barbara Provost, EdD and Maggie Nielsen, MBA are the co-founders of Purse Strings, a national platform helping women make confident financial decisions by connecting them with vetted financial professionals who truly understand women’s lives and money needs. Purse Strings connects women across the U.S. with vetted financial professionals who specialize in supporting women through divorce, money transitions, and financial independence.

Full Episode Transcript

(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)

Maggie: [00:00:00] Well, I hold a lot of stress.

Dr. Barb: your jaw.

Maggie: I sure do.

Dr. Barb: And it’s interesting because we both do yoga, you do the hot yoga, I do the more gentle basic yoga. But what I’m learning so much because I’ve had these kind of pretty amazing teachers, is at the beginning and at the end of class, we really talk about what you’re feeling in your body and where are you holding stress and really techniques to let that go and just be and not be rambling in your brain so much about everything that’s going on in the world, which is hard to do.

Maggie: Yeah. So when people do that and they’re like, where do you feel it in your body? Like, I always feel it in the same like two places. You know, it’s never like, oh, interesting. That’s a new spot. It’s like pretty much always like my jaw or like my throat, you know?

Dr. Barb: Is it okay? Interesting.

Maggie: chest. But yeah, it’s never like, oh wow, that’s new and different. It’s like, yeah, well it’s, you know, so I’m always like, is that, does everyone feel this way? You know? You never know. I’ve never spent time in somebody else’s body.[00:01:00] 

Dr. Barb: No, I feel it in my hips.

Maggie: Oh, I hear your hips are, there’s a lot of emotion in there.

Dr. Barb: There’s a lot of emotion. Yeah. And there’s a lot of, I think I carry a lot of emotion in my hips. It sounds crazy, but you gotta work it out. But.

Maggie: maybe you gotta shake them out.

Dr. Barb: I mean, I work at that, right? I mean, I, it’s, a lot of it has to do with playing tennis, but where does that end? My Achilles? But I think when you are in Shavasana, you can really evaluate.

Where your body feels like it’s been worked or it’s stress release or where you might still have more stress. But like we say, there’s a book that says Your body tells the story, which is very similar to what our podcast guest has shared today around money. Money, emotions, and how to kind of do a body check-in when you’re making big financial either decisions or [00:02:00] when you know you need to have a discussion about money.

And I love that we’re expanding into this because money used to be just transactional pay. This, this is a dollar amount, you know, it’s just black and white. When really the, what we’ve been exploring ever since. Purse strings has been evolving. We’ve been talking to so many experts. Yeah, money’s a tool, but money plays a huge role in our emotions and our relationships and a lot of it, so much of it is just woven from our childhood.

Maggie: Childhood generations, I mean, all the things it’s. But you know, you take a step back and you’re like, yeah, well that makes sense. You know, it brings up emotions. Emotions are stored somewhere in your body. I think we’ve all seen that Disney movie with all the little emotions running around. And that’s kind of what it feels like.

And so it’s kind of nice that we can.

Dr. Barb: acknowledge it.

Maggie: acknowledge it, name it, name it, to tame it, you know, and, and make us not feel like, oh my God, why [00:03:00] is money, like, we’re just talking about money. Why am I, why is my breathing getting so, like, why am I almost hyperventilating? You know? It’s like, yeah, ’cause you’re nervous.

’cause remember this time when you were a kid and you know, mom and dad did this, or whatever it may be, you know? It’s amazing what’s in our body and how our DNA works. I mean, let’s not. Go down that whole route, but pretty wild,

Dr. Barb: and I love how she’s like, what is this bringing up for you? Like. Even the next level, like what is this reminding you of? Like is, was there a situation that happened where, you know, there was something intense happening around money in your childhood that

Maggie: The weirdest thing is like when it’s something that you’ve never thought, like you’ve never thought twice about maybe like never ever. And then you’re like, why is this memory coming back? I didn’t even know I still had that memory. Or even remember taking in that memory, you know, it’s like, dude, there’s this SpongeBob episode where he had people living in his brain and they would like run to the file folders and like pull something out in their head.

And sometimes that’s how I just see the brain is like, we gotta go back to [00:04:00] that old file. Like dig, dig, dig in the folder.

Dr. Barb: That is so true. I love SpongeBob. So, you know, this was a really fun conversation. She’s just loaded with tools and resources and ways to check in with your body and why this is happening. I mean, she’s a somatic therapist. yeah, very interesting.

Maggie: Angie talks about chocolate.

Dr. Barb: Chocolate.

Maggie: All right, let’s just get into it.

Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.

Maggie: Bari, welcome to [00:05:00] Women and Money, the shit we don’t talk about. We are thrilled to have this conversation today. And so before we dive in, can you share a little bit about who you are and what you do with our audience?

Bari: Sure. I’m very happy to be here. I started out training to be a psychotherapist. In my twenties, a somatic therapist, a body-centered psychotherapist, and really my topics were intimacy, couples relationships, sexuality, sensuality, grief.

 Body, things like that. Those were my topics. And then my school loan came due and,

and I realized, wait a second, I just trained as a therapist for how many years. I just did all of this internship work. 150 page thesis, worked in the mental health field for years. We never talked about money. How am I gonna pay back this student loan? And then we never talked about money. So, [00:06:00] how am I gonna work with my couples when they’re fighting about money and how am I gonna start my own private practice and do my bookkeeping and what is my own relationship to money and money story?

And on and on. It became such a glaring, missing piece that I decided to do my own money work. I wound up. Starting a bookkeeping business. And so that was a little bit of an interim transition that I did after I got the master’s degree and, finished graduate school and all of that training, I decided to run a bookkeeping business ’cause it was fascinating to me.

 I was throwing away my bank statements in graduate school and what do you do with these? And then I started learning bookkeeping and it just blew my mind that as a creative therapist, dancer person, that I could learn bookkeeping, that I could fall in love with bookkeeping. I fell in love with QuickBooks.

Dr. Barb: Wow. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that before.

Bari: And I really, I fell in love with it. But then I realized that I, my [00:07:00] clients were therapists and artists and contractors. They didn’t wanna have anything to do with their bookkeeping. They had no idea how to masters in psychology. They threw their books at me, said Do them, take them. And I wound up learning so much about people’s relationship to money, spending patterns, saving patterns where their values were, family dynamics.

I saw it all, and so that was a little interim. And then 25 years ago in 2001. I started teaching my first financial therapy method, which is money healing, money practices and money maps. I can talk about that in tiny little groups in my living room of 10 people, and then it go to 20 people, and then 50 people and then online.

And then we had people, you know. Up to four or 500 people a year when I was doing a year long program with folks all over the world. So I’ve always loved teaching in groups. It’s way more affordable for folks, it’s more lucrative for me. And so much [00:08:00] change can happen when we’re in a group. So much uns shaming can happen.

So much learning can happen. So that’s what I primarily did for 25 years, is teach groups online. And always had a handful of financial therapy clients, mostly women and couples, and have written two books, two published books, and then last year decided it was time to take a sabbatical, a year long teaching sabbatical.

You have found me in the last few months of my year long teaching sabbatical and I’m just starting to come in. And I can share what’s next on the horizon, but that’s a little bit of what I’ve been doing for the last 25 years. Writing, teaching, doing private financial therapy sessions with mostly women and some couples as well.

Maggie: This is just such a, a fun journey. I first love when we all pay for our college education and come out and do something completely different. You know, like when I was getting my [00:09:00] Master’s, it was always like, well, what do you wanna do with it? I was like, I don’t know, but I’m getting it. You know? And then we just come around and it, and you used it eventually, you know, it always comes full circle.

It’s not like the information goes away, but I love that. That’s so funny. I’ve gotta ask, like, did you. What was kind of like your money story growing up? Did you guys talk about money at home 

Bari: Yes and no. I grew up middle class in Chicago. I grew up, my family owned some real estate. They manage real estate. My family with my uncles opened up the first gay bars in Chicago,

so in Boys Town, Christopher Street, and I worked at them as a 20-year-old. and so. You know, I grew up with entrepreneurs and I got to see the passion around that, but I also got to see the stress around that.

 And I, two very different parents. My mom was way more [00:10:00] frugal, but also very generous. You know, she’s her ways that she likes to spend money, and then other ways where she’s very frugal. My dad was way more of the spender, way more of the risk taker, so they were very different. And each of their strengths and challenges.

And there was a lot of power dynamics with my father that were not fun, that I had to work through. I made a lot of declarations as a young girl, like I’m never getting married. I’m never gonna depend on a man for money. I’m gonna do business different than my dad.

 well I got married at 35, had my first and only child at 40. So just a different path, right? Hit those milestones in a different way, different time. But I also had to learn how to make my own money, and that was very important to me. Even as a therapist. You know, that’s really like you as a therapist, you’re trained, you’re not supposed to talk about money.

You are not supposed to strive for money. You’re supposed to just do your good work and somehow,

 money [00:11:00] appears, you know? And so I had to work through all of that. And then I also had to work with things around my dad and the pardon, ’cause he would be very generous at times, but then also had a lot of strings attached that weren’t clearly.

 Spoken or I have lots of stories on that. I tell a little some of that in my book and you know, I’ll just say that a lot of it was very uncomfortable. And then eventually I learned more in my twenties. How to find my own relationship to money, how to make my own money, how to live by my values, how to do business in a way that felt good for me.

And then years later when my father was dying, we had some really beautiful and hard conversations. So there was a lot of forgiveness, there was a lot of reconciliation, and I learned a lot of tough love from him and hard lessons. But, you know, I learned a lot of strength from him too. So that’s a teeny bit of my money story a lot of generosity, some strings attached that were not clearly [00:12:00] articulated. Some power dynamic. Yeah. That were not fun. That’s just a little bit of my money story.

Maggie: Yeah, I was just curious with throwing out the bank statements and stuff, you know, how it goes it’s just always interesting if you just don’t know or you know, some people are just known to just ignore it and it takes care of itself, which could totally happen, you know? 

Bari: Yeah, I mean, I remember, it was all paper back in the day, so I had, you know, the paper, what was it called? Your little wallet, and you had a little register that you would write in

you checkbook register. You know, my father, when I was in college had me fill that out and photocopy it to him and send it to him every week

Maggie: oh wow.

Bari: great. But then there were no conversations on here’s your budget, here’s your limit, how, here’s how much. He just wanted to see that. So it was a strange condition. But then there was no discussions around, now what do I do? You know? And I had to work from age 15 on, he would send me out over a weekend and say, go get [00:13:00] a job.

And I was like, I don’t know how to get a job. I don’t know how to interview. I don’t know what I wanna do. So he would just send me out to the wolves. But I had to learn quickly, how do I get a job? How do I interview, how do I do this? So yeah, but I did as a more creative person who grew up dance as a dancer and a therapist.

The bank statements came and I was like, I don’t know what to do with these. I don’t wanna deal with it. I’ll throw it away. I’ll just throw it away. And you know, everyone in the women I was living with in graduate school, they remember that. They remember those stories. So I spoke about all these other topics that were so important to me in graduate school when the student loan came due.

And I realized, how am I gonna pay this off? ’cause I was making $11 an hour.

Maggie: She’s rich.

Bari: I couldn’t get a massage. I couldn’t bring a basket full of chocolate to dinners. You know, that was kind of my impetus of I’m doing such good work and that’s very important to me, but $11 an hour is not gonna have me paying back [00:14:00] my student loan.

 And so there was a lot of things I had to grapple with, which is. How do you do your good work in the world? How do you create a business and a livelihood while also getting paid well and creating a business model that’s really gonna work with the different phases in your life and learn about money?

That’s why when I learned bookkeeping and that happened in one of my mental health. Programs. I was working in the milieu with lots of clients with pretty severe diagnoses, and the program director said to me, Hey, how about five hours in a back quiet room? I’ll teach you Quicken and Excel and you’ll do the books for the program.

And I just had to have a poker face ’cause. I was throwing away my bank statements at the time and I had a voice that said say yes, say yes, and I was terrified. I went in that back room and it was quiet, and he gently, as a good teacher, taught me how to work with [00:15:00] Quicken, how to use Excel. Really.

It was mind blowing It was incredible. I was like. Wow, this is really interesting. I don’t have to be great at math. The bookkeeping systems and programs do it. It does it for me. And then I had a contractor say, I’ll teach you QuickBooks. And basically, the contractor said, I’ll pay you.

 15 an hour and then 20 an hour, you know? And I was like, oh, I see a way out. I see a way to move through some money ceilings that I’m not able to do with my master’s degree in the mental health field, but I can do it over here in bookkeeping. I’m learning a new skillset that I need desperately, and I just trusted the trail, even though everyone around me was saying, what the heck are you doing?

What are you doing? You’re a therapist, you have a master’s degree. Why are you learning bookkeeping? Why are you doing bookkeeping for other people? It was so empowering for me to learn how to manage my own money and to see what the [00:16:00] numbers were. It, it just gave me such an incredible tool and skillset to eventually not only start a private practice later, but then to teach other people and then eventually create my other work from.

Dr. Barb: Wow. I also love something you said about as you were. Doing the bookkeeping, you could, like, you had a insight to people’s money, habits, money mindsets, money behaviors. So thinking about women what are some things women got wrong or they were never taught? Like what kind of patterns did you see working with women? 

Bari: That’s always such an interesting question for me because even though my husband has said, just call it 95% of your community is women because you’re a therapist, because you’re talking about money, emotions, the guys aren’t gonna come to you. No. I’ve always had some guys, and I’ve always had some couples.

Dr. Barb: [00:17:00] Mm-hmm.

Bari: Right. So it’s always been interesting. So it’s the water I’m swimming in. It’s always been hard for me to say this is what women have been challenged by. But I noticed even growing up myself, my father was talking about investments with my younger brother, not me. Right? And I’m the one who started and has been running my own business for 25 years, right? 

Dr. Barb: Isn’t that

Bari: I also, you know, was on a panel, this was before the pandemic, where the stats for millennial women were that the women were still abdicating responsibility to their spouses in heterosexual relationships. And I was like, what? Why? You know what? So my work has always been with women geared toward women, and it’s also always been.

 While I love the bookkeeping, as you can see, like crazy about, I love teaching people QuickBooks back in the day. I haven’t done that for a few decades, but I’ve always had people on my [00:18:00] team who would sit down and hold your hand with a box of tissues and chocolate.

Maggie: I’ll do my books then.

Bari: Right, right.

My husband just taught himself mint one night, taught himself. QuickBook another day, taught himself, and it’s not a necessarily male female thing, but the people have always come to me, have known that 90% of our money decisions are based on emotions. It’s the only sta I’m ever gonna give you. ‘ cause I’m not academic.

Right. I’m very much experiential learning and my work has always been in the trenches, like with a group of folks. So, so for women I’ll say, and the men who’ve come to me, money is very emotional and it doesn’t mean that one day these money motions are gonna go away. And that was surprising to me.

I think when I first started doing this work, I thought that [00:19:00] somehow the money, emotions would go away one day or that the money emotions were a different set of emotions than all the other regular emotions, but there. Anxiety, shame, anger, hope, jealousy, scarcity. I can go on and on, you know? But this is really important, I think, for all of us to learn.

 and so first up for me, what I call money healing is understanding what are the money, emotions that come up for you. Is it one, is it many? Is it a cocktail? And all the different money moments when we’re going to have a money conversation with our spouse. What is the money motion that is present in the heat of the moment, during that hard money conversation?

What’s coming up for you or afterwards or when you’re going to make a money decision, you’re going to buy a car, you’re going to buy a home, you’re walking into Target and suddenly you want everything. You know? So I can tell lots of stories about that, but for me. This work needs to happen first [00:20:00] before we get to the money practices and learn a bookkeeping system and look at your numbers, which I love.

And or before you can go into budgeting and planning. For me, this work is first. So knowing that 90% of our money decisions are based on our emotions, so taking some time to not ignore the emotions that come up, not pretend they’re just, if you ignore them, they’ll go away. Not look at them or be so scared of them.

And if they’re scary, emotions are scary. They can be big for so many of us. But learning some tools to just stop and pause and say, what’s the emotion that’s coming up right now? Where is it in my body? Or sometimes you may not, you’re like, what does that mean? So it’s just is your, where do you have tightness in your body?

Oh, my. Jaw’s really tight, or my shoulders are really high, or I’m feeling like I have a stomach ache right now, or a little butterfly. So just what are you even noticing in your [00:21:00] body in all of these money decisions or when you’re gonna have a money conversation and giving you some tools, which goes back to my somatic.

 Training. So I’ll tell a really short story. The very first night I went to give my first financial therapy class, the very first evening in a little circle in my living room the first night. I’m like, okay, everyone, let’s talk about family history and your mom’s relationship to money and your dad’s, and tell me some positive pros and cons about your mom’s relationship to money and everyone just glazed over.

In the headlights. Everyone just shut down. And I thought, what am I doing? I just spent a decade training as a therapist, as a body centered therapist. I’m asking them to talk about their money stories way too fast, way too soon. And I’m not giving them a tool. So the next week I came back and I said, let me teach you a somatic [00:22:00] tool, and we’re gonna stop and pause and just check in and say, what do you notice in your body?

 On a physical level, are your shoulders up? Are they down? Is your jaw tight? Is it loose? What’s the emotion that’s present? Can you name it? Are you sleepy? Are you angry? Are you anxious? Are you feeling some shame to talk about your money stuff? What’s coming up? Where’s your breath in your body? Because sometimes people are like, I don’t know what the emotion is.

But then I’ll say, so, where’s your breath in your body? Are you holding your breath? Is it up in your throat? Is your breath down in your chest or your belly? So there we all like when we check in with our body, it’s different for everyone. You know? Some people go, I understand what you mean on a physical level.

My legs are crossed. What about sensations? Oh, I understand. Hot or cold. Other people might understand what’s the emotion? And other people go, oh I can tell you I’m holding my breath. I’m to, I’m holding my breath right now. So we do a little body check-in [00:23:00] like that, and then people either can just be sitting quiet, observing what’s going on with them, or we can talk about what’s the emotion that’s coming up, or I’m terrified to tell you about my money story.

I’m really afraid to be because of this, or I’m really angry still about my money story. I’m still really sad, or I’m still waiting for someone to come and save me. You know, I’m still waiting for someone to come and do this for me. I don’t wanna grow up. I don’t wanna do this part of life.

 So even just taking some time to pause and say, notice what’s happening in this moment. Slow down. What’s the emotion? What’s going on? For me, that’s, that is one tool. I know we’re jumping to a tool, but really what this comes down to is that, again, if 90% of your money decisions are based on your emotions, then it would be really beneficial to learn what are the set of emotions that come up for you?

What are the primary ones? Where do you notice some in your [00:24:00] body? And another question I like to ask, what does it remind you of. Yeah, I’ll tell a little short story. Okay. And I, so we were years ago. Our Saturday morning with our son, who was four, going to get our coffee and we go to a new place and behind the coffee shop there’s a green electric leaf car dealership.

My hus, this is when they were just coming out. My husband had wanted one his whole life since he was a little kid. This was his dream. I was like, we have one car, we don’t need a second one. Right? This is, he was like, well, I’m the one who’s riding the bike in the snow in the winter, so.

Maggie: Touche, Touche. 

Bari: And next thing you know, we’re in the car dealership and we’re, you know, meeting with the sales guy. He’s asking us if we wanna take a test drive, we do a test drive, we come back and all of a sudden I notice. That I’m starting to like having trouble breathing. I’m starting to notice my breath is starting to go up the top of my head.

So I go honey [00:25:00] and car salesman guy, I’ll be right back. I go to the bathroom and I do a little body check-in. I call this a body check-in. So this little tool of how to work with your emotions. Name them, sit with them, understand them, and then move on Is a body check-in.

So I go to the bathroom ’cause the bathroom. Great place. You know, you can splash water on your face. You can take a few deep breaths and just ask yourself, what’s going on? What am I noticing in my body? And I noticed my breath was going up high. I was starting to hyperventilate a little bit, so I just said, Hi, anxiety, hello, breath hyperventilating a little bit. What’s going on? And I just noticed what was going on. I felt it a little bit, I named it and they said. And then I ask myself, what does this remind you of? Oh, it reminds me of, I really don’t like fast money decisions now. This was years ago, right?

But I really don’t like fast money decisions and I’m just thinking about my parents’ audit [00:26:00] from years ago and that, so we never know what’s gonna come up. It’s, I just did a little work in the bathroom, a little body check-in, and then I was able to say, okay. That’s okay. That’s good. Now what do you need to do?

I need to just see if I can get my breath down a little bit. Take some deeper breaths in the bathroom. All right, now what’s next? Okay, next. I’m done with my body. Check-in in the bathroom. I don’t need to stay here forever, but I’ve done thousands of body check-ins. So the first time you do it, you might be like, I’m hyperventilating and I can’t calm myself down.

That’s okay. Right. Second time it might be a little different third time. So whenever I finish a body check-in, I always ask myself, what is one little adjustment can I make right now to help me feel more okay right now? Or more calm? So in the bathroom it was, can I take some deeper breaths? Can I splash some water on my cold water on my face?

And then I said, what’s next? What do I need now? I’m gonna go out and have a money day with my husband. In the car [00:27:00] dealership. So I went out, we wound up sitting and having a 10, 15 minute money date. We made up questions on the spot. Money date questions can be, can we afford this? Do we have the cash flow for this right now?

 Is this decision in alignment with our values? Will this decision hinder a larger goal of buying a home? So we just had a money date in the car dealership made the best decision we could and drove off the lot and we bought the car that day and that was that. But I needed that body check-in.

I needed to see what’s going on, give my body and emotions a little bit of attention, do some work in the bathroom, come out, and then we get practical.

All right let’s make some practical decisions here and have a little money date. So that’s one of the ways that I do it. In day-to-day real life moments that happen all the time so it’s not like one day the money motions are just gonna disappear, but the volume can decrease. You can [00:28:00] catch them quicker.

You can feel you are equipped with some tools to meet these big emotions that come up in all of these moments,

Dr. Barb: Yeah. What’s interesting is. Your husband’s approach to getting the car was quite different than yours, right? And so often when we’re in relationship, we don’t talk about what’s your approach to money? You know, what’s of value to you? Like my favorite question is, how much money bari would you go ahead and spend if you were out with your girlfriends without calling your husband and saying, I’m thinking about buying this purse.

It’s $2,000, you know. Are you okay with that? Or do you just say, no, I’m gonna just do this. It’s fine. He won’t have a problem with it. Like, is there a number? Is it $500? You know, so I think approach to money when you’re in a couple is very interesting,

Bari: So this is one of my favorite topics. [00:29:00] It’s one of my favorite topics. ’cause no two people come together, even if they come from the same economic class. Then in, in how they then approach money, right? So we fall in love for attraction, but we also fall in love because our values are the same on the surface, right?

 Guess what? At some point we realize we’re different or we spend money differently or we do money differently. We have different styles and approaches. So with couples, one of the first things is just guess what, at some point you’re gonna be horrified that your partner is different than you I try to bring in some lightness ’cause it’s so heavy, you know, with couples, right? They can have a great relationship, but money is where they fight. ‘ cause their styles and approaches and you know, and so, but couples polarize a lot. One person is more this. Bender I’m simplifying one’s more the savor.

I’m just, we go to extreme. One person sticks their head in the sand, right? Doesn’t wanna have anything to do with, ignore it. The other person is more the warrior or more hypervigilant. I can go on and on, or [00:30:00] one person feels they’re the smarty pants because they got the finance degree and the other person maybe is more creative like me from their background and feels like I feel more stupid around money.

 So that’s just one little thing. I teach couples how to have a new kind of money date and a new kind of money conversation and couples can be five years in, 10 years in, 30 years in. How do you start to have new money conversations with each other? Even just saying to your partner, Hey honey, can we have a five minute or 15 minute money date right now?

Or can we schedule it even instead of you get the credit card bill? And you’re horrified by the way your partner is spent on something that’s different than you. And you go running to them and they’re in the shower or right before bed. You know, you try to have these conversations. So I’m always saying, let’s schedule some money dates, even go out for dinner, go for a walk, go for a hike.

Schedule these, and I teach people how to begin [00:31:00] to talk about money in a new different way. And we don’t do numbers like for, we started out with story time, so just tell me about. One of my favorite questions is sib. If you had siblings, how were you different than around money? Meaning my siblings, my younger siblings, they were more savers early on and I was more the spender because I just like things and was passionate about things.

So I was the more, like my dad and my siblings were more. You know, like my mom. And so just, even just starting to have like, what was your money role? How were you different from your siblings? What was your, how was your mom’s relationship to money? Sometimes we don’t even remember, but we’ll have an image.

I can remember my mom. Kind of frantically paying the bills at the kitchen table. Or I can remember my parents fighting about money behind closed doors. So sometimes we’ll have memories like that. So going back to couples, it’s just we weren’t taught how to have loving, compassionate conversations with our spouse.

 We’re very different. We have different styles and approaches. [00:32:00] Not one way is the right way or the better way. We each have things to learn from each other. So even if you’re five, 10 years. Into your marriage, a relationship, you’ve swept this under your rug and you have habits and patterns and behaviors that aren’t working.

 How do you come together and say, this is where you’re good with money, this is where you’re good with money, or you know? So I start with story time first, and I talk about values next where we’re different, you know, and then who’s on what, so who’s doing the bookkeeping? Who hates the bookkeeping? Who, me and I did our bookkeeping for years, and then as soon as I got pregnant, my husband said, I’m gonna take it over.

I was shocked. I was surprised. I was delighted. You know, he took it over. And then also, the last thing is how do you get on the same team with each other? So I know I’m, but I write about this a lot. Story time, values, getting on who’s on what, and then. Making sure you’re really on the same team. ’cause the couples, at some point, it feels like [00:33:00] we’re not in the same team.

It feels like we’re going to war with each other instead of no. What are our goals in life right now? Okay. Even when I was decided I was gonna take the sabbatical, me and my husband had to have many conversation. How is this gonna work financially? We’ve always been dual households, dual income households, sometimes 50, 50.

Sometimes I was, I made more. Sometimes he made more. Over the last 25 years, we have to talk about it. You know, there are times when he’s needed a little transition before he’s worked. He’s had his own businesses and worked for people. Right. He can do both. I could only work for myself. You need to know that.

And so there were times where he was trying to figure out a next thing, and I, all right, we agreed. He gets six months to figure it out before he has to either get a job or start getting clients again. So we both had to really get on the same team. That we’re in agreement. If I take this [00:34:00] sabbatical, then he has to increase his business consulting on his side in a significant way.

Is he ready for it? Is he willing to do it? You know, what’s going on? So this is the first time, you know, my whole life that I’ve been with someone where he’s been making more of our income, right? Because it was, as I said earlier, it was always so important. I always say there’s one more thing.

There’s always many, many more things. But remember I told the story of being in the car dealership and you noticed that we had very different styles. He was ready to buy the car that day. I was, and it really scared me. And then a year or so later, we went to buy a house. And who ran the show? Me We, we bought a home in 36 hours and I.

Something had changed in me and I was ready. We showed up in the mortgage broker’s office. I had, we had all our numbers, you know, and I, and he was scared. He was really so right. It can change. You have to notice like, what’s going on with you, what’s going on with [00:35:00] you. So it’s not gonna be always the same money story for each of us.

Maggie: I love when people kind of put it in their perspective of like, when you get married, you know, you’re life is a business together, right? And so everything is kind of that same goal of, to have like the business grow of. Your house and your finances and those kind of things. And so it is that communication of like it’s us two against the world versus like us two against each other to make this business thrive.

You know? And so like even for Barb and I being in business, we’re never like yelling at each other what we spend on. It’s like trying to understand each other’s why and just wanting the business to grow together, you know? And are they always eye to eye a hundred percent of the time? Absolutely not. But like we sit there, we hear each other out and make the best educated decision from there.

 But it’s how do you grow that quote unquote business together? Right?

Bari: Yes. And how do you create a space where you can have those open conversations and disagree and have different styles and approaches and different opinions? I had a [00:36:00] business partner for three and a half years, and it’s like a marriage, you know, it is like a marriage and we had very different strengths.

 You know, she was great as a financial coach and could have a full client load. And I was great at giving the initial talks and HA and teaching groups, and we wanted to go at different paces and at some point I got pregnant and she sent me a calendar to get my stuff together and I was like I’m throwing up and pregnant.

I don’t want a calendar. So, and then we hired someone to help us part ways after three and a half years, and we’re still, we did that really. Elegantly, I think. And you know, I just saw her, this is, I mean, 17 years later and she’s in town and we were just went on a hike together. So that’s again, no two people are gonna have the same style approach.

Pacing. Another thing with couples, they used to take my class together and one of them would listen to all the interviews and do fill out all the [00:37:00] worksheets, and the other person was like tell me one interview to listen to and I’ll do that. And you, and that’s okay. That’s okay. Or one person really didn’t wanna do the bookkeeping, but they would come in and if their partner would do the bookkeeping, then they would come at the end of the month and review everything together and see the larger picture and make decisions together.

 So that happens a lot where, or I get a lot of women who come to me and say, my partner’s not willing or interested. And I say, okay, you go forth, you do this work, you do this work for yourself. And I can’t tell you how many times. That because of the changes to what you, the weirdness that you gain about your own money stories, your own money emotions, your own money patterns, right?

And then all the new things that you learn. Like you might learn a new bookkeeping system on your own, and all of a sudden you what the, you know what the numbers are, you know what the family numbers are. Your partner’s gonna at some point, [00:38:00] turn over and look back at you say, what are you doing? Like something’s different and you’re changing, or even.

 You are learning so much about yourself and you feel more empowered and more confident that even your tone and how you approach your partner, it’s different. It’s, Hey honey. I’m ready to have that money meeting, now I’m ready to have that money date. Can we schedule that? And the other partner’s finally willing just because you ask differently.

 So I see that over and over and over. And I love when women are just, when they’re ready, I say, go forth and start doing the work on your own.

Dr. Barb: Well, I was just gonna say, it sounds like what you’re sharing with us is how women have shifted their relationship with money emotionally and how things can change for them.

Bari: Over and over and over and over. And I’ll tell a story of a couple and how this has happened and, okay, so I worked with a couple and [00:39:00] he had got the, he had the finance degree, so he felt he was the smarty pants, you know, he knew everything. She, at the time was a new mom, a yoga teacher, and. They kept coming to their money dates.

It wasn’t even a money date. It was just, they would start fighting, you know, it would wind up in tears. It wind up in screaming and swearing and fighting, and it just. They had no tools. You know, they had no space. And so she said, all right, I found this program. It’s financial therapy. We talk about money, emotions.

And he was like, I don’t need that. You know, and, but so he felt like his arm was twisted a little bit, but he said, I’ll do it for you. I’ll join this program, I’ll join this work and I’ll just see. But there’s gonna be nothing for me to learn here. You know? I know everything and I’m the best teacher for you.

And what they learned is he learned that, guess what? In his [00:40:00] finance degree, they never talked about money psychology or money emotions or what’s your money story. And so he did some deeper work around, guess what? He had his own money, emotions. He also grew up in a communist country before coming to the US he had some money, story work and family stuff to learn about and grapple with and some challenges and things he’s had to overcome.

 and so he realized he’s not the best teacher for her. Which was huge. He’s not the best teacher for her. You know, he doesn’t know everything. ’cause he kept whipping out the Excel spreadsheets during these meetings and she was like, get them away from me. I don’t wanna see the numbers.

That spreadsheet terrifies me. well, she was just so grateful that he was willing a bit to, you know, come and do his own work and talk about money, emotions. She realized. That she needed, not an Excel spreadsheet. She wanted to learn how to use Quicken, not with him, [00:41:00] with someone else.

Like she got a different teacher to hold her hand, you know, with the chocolate breaks and all that. And she learned Quicken. She felt so empowered by that. So she just needed. To do it different than him. She needed to be more creative. I have lots of creative ways in my program that I teach people. I have people rename their categories to make it more fun and meaningful.

 I, there’s a lot of that in my book and people love that. She, so she learned Quicken and it was so incredibly empowering for her. So she got a handle on the numbers, the family finances. I mean, she wound up going from being a yoga teacher, which is wonderful. To. Then what was the next thing she did?

But she eventually, she’s a financial planner. She’s a financial planner.

Dr. Barb: Yeah, heard these stories before. It’s incredible. Right?

Bari: she’s a financial planner. So again, it’s not like her money motions just went away, but they found a way to have a new [00:42:00] kind of money conversation. They created a space where whether it was going out for dinner. Over a glass of wine. If you’re drinking, you know, if you’re not drinking wine, don’t do that.

But, or on walks or whatever it was over the kitchen table to have a new kind of money conversation where he got to talk about his strengths around money. She got to talk about hers. They talked about their stories, their differences. And they just learn so much in that process and still have money dates, still have couples, money dates.

It’s totally changed. So it went from fighting, swearing, arguing, crying. I can’t say you’re never gonna cry again around money. You know, if you learn these tools and stuff, of course you will. You know, the, when I got audited, I went to mail mailbox, you know, five, five years ago, and I had like seven fat envelopes from the IRSI

I didn’t cry, but I went into like a full shutdown and freeze and for a week or [00:43:00] two until I realized, oh. I’m terrified. Oh, and I’m pissed, and oh, I’m, you know, so when there’s a new money challenge, you’re still gonna have big money, emotions to work with. But when you learn how to have more compassionate, loving, open conversations with yourself, with your partner, when you learn, oh, I can do that body check-in thing.

 That Bari talks about before I’m gonna go to the car dealership, or before I’m gonna have a money day with my spouse or my kids, or my teenagers or my parents, or I forget to have the body check-in before, but in the heat of the moment, I’m gonna take myself to the bathroom to do a body check-in. Or if I’m doing online shopping, I.

Pause and go, what am I doing? Do I really need this? Am I really hungry or thirsty, or something else going on here? So the body check-in can happen before these hard money conversations or decisions during it, even after as a debriefing, like, [00:44:00] oh, I just walked out of the mall with three bags. I’ve closed.

What just happened? Let me learn from that. What can I do different next time? What am I feeling? What was going on with me? So the Body Check-in is one of those tools for couples, for individuals to keep practicing daily.

Maggie: I think that story of the couple is a great example of like not every tool works for everybody. You know, the Excel spreadsheet used Quicken, you know, not just like I’m trying to be difficult and do something different, but like we see things in such different ways, especially if you’re more of a creative or an analytical or how you plug things in.

And so, I mean, now. Got thousands of apps. I mean, pick which one. You know, me, I’ve tried ’em all. You know, that’s part of the wanting to try everything, you know, which not always helpful, but you have so many options out there. And so you’ve gotta find what works for you. And it might not be the first thing that someone shares with you or teaches you.

It doesn’t mean like. I’m bad at money. It’s like, great, that tool not for [00:45:00] us. You know? Let’s try the next one. You know, we’ll just keep trading ’em in and out. Bari, I would love to kind of learn now what are you doing post sabbatical? What are we leaning into? Are we gonna get back to group coaching or new projects? 

Bari: I think I’m still gonna pause from teaching. 

Maggie: Yeah.

Bari: Yeah, I think, that’s the plan is that’s still gonna be on Hi hiatus. I needed a break and I think I’m gonna continue with a break, but the one thing I did get very clear about is that I am ready to create an imprint. And a lot of people are like, what’s an imprint?

And imprint is, you know, as I mentioned, I had two published books with traditional publishers and. Now I’m ready to self-publish. So I have so much content from 25 years of teaching and literally, you know, I used to create handouts that every time I taught I was like, I learned something new from the students, from the group or what’s working, [00:46:00] what’s not.

 So all my online content, I feel like there, there’s so many interviews and handouts and worksheets. So. I’m gonna create what’s called Tiny Books. I mean, it’s like a hundred pages and the first one’s the Money Emotions Handbook. So I’m saying that for the first time, and we’re working on that one now.

And so it’s going to, of course, include. Some of the content that I’ve been teaching for 25 years, but we’re gonna give it a fresh look. And the woman I’m working with we’re doing things in a new way. We’re gonna have a glossary of all the different money, emotions we’re gonna have, descriptions, we’re gonna have a glossary of all the somatic tools or.

 Things to do after you’ve checked in with your body. And what is one little adjustment that I can make right now to help you feel Okay? Lots of ideas there. So it’s, the content’s gonna be different. It’s gonna be different in these tiny books. So I’m gonna be launching financial therapy press the fall, and with three books.

And then probably [00:47:00] some products too, because for money dates, I’ve always like to make that more creative and interesting and let your candle and eat your chocolate and, you know, do whatever you need to do to make it more inviting or to create rituals around it. So this is the financial therapy press is what’s coming.

 That is certain. I think I’m gonna open up some private sessions again. But do the offering a little different than before. So that’s on the horizon. And you know, I have a, I’m an older mom. I had my one and only son at 40, as I mentioned. He’s graduating high school in four weeks and then going to Japan for a gap year, and then New York City.

And so there’s just. There’s a lot of, you know, large transitions happening and with me being 57 and yeah, just, just needing [00:48:00] to move into the next life phase. Yeah.

Maggie: Yeah. I love that. And I think you’ve shared so many great stories and tips today. I mean, I love when people share stories ’cause you can really see how that applies to your own life and all those different things. So I think this is gonna be a great listen for our audience and we want more details of when your books come out so we can add those to the show notes later just so people have those resources to go to.

But there is a question, you know, we’d like to ask all of our guests. And so to kind of to wrap up, what does financial freedom mean to you personally?

Bari: That’s always such a interesting word, freedom for me. Even the tagline of my book, the Art of Money, A Life Changing Guide to Financial Happiness, it’s like, what is one word that encapsulates a whole thing? So I don’t know how to answer that. I mean, for me. It’s more of like, what is a good life?

And so I’m gonna reframe the question a little bit. You know, it’s financial freedom. It’s what is a good life doing work that you love? Creating a wonderful [00:49:00] livelihood being present with yourself and your family during all these different life phases. And for me, it’s adjusting and adapting and fine tuning my business model, you know, at different points along the way.

Like how much I wanna work, how little what my offering. So that financial freedom for me is, I think. Being able to just deeply listen to what life phase I’m in right now with time, energy, money, family and health, and adjusting work life around that.

Maggie: That’s awesome. I love it. I love it. Well, this has been such a fun conversation. We appreciate you coming on during your hiatus and sharing your expertise. We can’t wait to see where, you know, things grow and go and yeah. Until next time, be financially fearless. 

Outro: You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take [00:50:00] what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, your go to resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless. 

Budgeting + Mindset with YNAB with Lindsey Ciarrocca

 Budgeting + Mindset with YNAB with Lindsey Ciarrocca

Budgeting doesn’t have to feel like punishment, it can actually set you free.

This week, we’re joined by Lindsey Ciarrocca, a YNAB Certified Coach, Certified Money Coach®, and founder of The Exuberant Elephant. Lindsey is all about helping women use money as a tool to live their greatest life. She’s also the co-owner of Providers & Families Wealth Management, where she and her husband help clients with comprehensive financial planning.

Lindsey shares her journey from hating math in school to becoming a budgeting coach, and how she helps women break free from old money stories. In this conversation, Lindsey breaks down the truth about budgeting, how to make it actually work for you, and the mindset shifts that transform money from a stressor into a tool for freedom. She shares how to use YNAB (You Need A Budget) to go from paycheck-to-paycheck panic to total clarity and why awareness is the most powerful part of financial change.

Follow & connect with Lindsey Ciarrocca:

• Website 

• Instagram: @theexuberantelephant 

• LinkedIn 

• Facebook
• Youtube

Here’s some of what we discuss in this episode: 

00:00 Budgeting Myths Debunked
00:52 Meet Lindsey: Financial Planner and Budget Coach
04:19 From Hating Math to Loving Budgets
07:19 Advisor vs. Coach: Understanding the Roles
10:54 The Power of Budgeting with YNAB
15:03 Practical Tips for Effective Budgeting
If you’ve ever felt like budgeting is something you “should” do but can’t quite stick with, this one’s for you. To reset your money mindset before the new year, join us December 4th for Money Talks: A 2026 Money Reset. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!

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• Instagram

• TikTok

• LinkedIn

• YouTube

• Reddit 

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Resources

• Have questions? Click this to check out our expert Q&A for tips from industry experts, tailored to help women address their most common financial concerns. 

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• Explore our free guides to help you on your financial journey 

Episode Transcript

(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)

Maggie: [00:00:00] So sometimes I feel like we sound like a broken record ’cause we’re always like, know what’s going in and know what’s going out, And like, I don’t even want to hear it or say it anymore, but we talk about like how important it is and people like, don’t say the B word, a k budget, or all these different things, or like, I wanna call it a spending plan. You know what I mean? Like there’s every way to go about it, but at the end of the day, it’s like. it’s just like anything else. We compare it to, if you wanna lose weight, you work out more and you eat less, blah, blah, blah. but it’s just such the foundation and we see our story after story after story of people, like, they just don’t know where their money’s going.

 And so And so as much as we say it.

Dr. Barb: We gotta say it again.

Maggie: I gotta say it again. And 

so like if you’re tuning in and you’re like, wow, this girl’s gonna talk about a budget, don’t tune me out. It’s a money podcast. We’re talking about this shit.

Dr. Barb: Yeah, but in a fun, fun way. I mean, I know budgeting, it’s like the broccoli of personal finance.

Maggie: [00:01:00] Okay, I love broccoli. So back off. 

Dr. Barb: Well, and broccoli’s good for you, right? Some people don’t like it, but it’s good for you. Just like budgeting. It’s good for you.

Maggie: And it’s one of those like just super foundational things that you have to do and you really can never kind of stop doing. 

Dr. Barb: But you know, you can reframe it and say, you’re in charge now, right? You get to make the decisions on how you wanna spend your money. You just get to make all the decisions because all those decisions empower you to put your money wherever you want it to go. You’re in charge.

Maggie: you hear that ladies, you’re in charge now.

Dr. Barb: You are, be brave. You’re in charge. Even if you wanna overspend, that’s your decision. You live by the consequences. Right? But that’s your decision. So you are in charge.

Maggie: For better or for worse. Sometimes, you know, I’m like, will someone else do it for me? But tis is life. You got an adult. So that’s why we’re having Lindsey on today. We’re talking an app she uses. You need a budget (YNAB). I know I like to use copilot. I know you don’t use an app at all, I mean, everyone has a way of [00:02:00] doing it, which is also interesting.

I would love to do like a quick. 10 minutes of like all these different ways of people, how they budget ’cause there’s a thousand different ways to do it.

Dr. Barb: You want me to tell you something about how I did it?

Maggie: Are you gonna tell me about how you gave it to your friend again?

Dr. Barb: No. Years and years ago, back in the stone ages when I worked for a bank, we had this thing called checking account where you had to write in all your checks when you spent things, right, when you paid for your utilities, when you paid for your phone bill, when you paid for your rent, when you paid for your mortgage.

That was your budget. I mean, everything was written out. So every single time you wrote your checks for all your bills or for cash or for whatever. We wrote that out for years and years and years, even after people stopped doing that, it wasn’t till like 10 years ago that I stopped writing a check register and it helped me budget

’cause I saw exactly how much I was paying for all those expenses. I could memorize it in my head. So if you never had that experience of consistently writing [00:03:00] down every month, I pay this because you had to write a check. You had to register it subtract it from the balance in your account so that you knew how much money was in your account.

 I mean, I always did that. And so having that routine, that was kind of my budget flow ’cause I knew what was left in my account after I paid my utilities and what else I had left. No, I didn’t get down to the granular on how much I paid for shoes versus how much I paid for food or whatever. I might’ve had like a general fund for

what I needed to get me through to the next paycheck, but for the most part, it was a way of budgeting your money when your money came in.

Maggie: Well now everyone just dips into your bank account without you knowing and you open it up every day and you’re like, Hmm, 

Dr. Barb: Yeah, because it’s too easy. It’s too easy to take money out without recording it.

Maggie: I know. It just seems all imaginary sometimes And you don’t see it even deposited. You know, it’s like one day it’s there and you just hope it’s maybe the right amount

’cause no one even gets like a pay stub anymore.

Dr. Barb: I know it’s all out in the

black hole somewhere. And [00:04:00] so because of that, it makes it kind of magical. Like those credit cards, they’re magic.

Maggie: Magic cards. So either way we’re getting back to it. We’re talking with Lindsey about how you need a budget. I’m not saying you, but probably you do. And again, just hinting, you know, we’re hitting the end of November, going into December, brand new year. Maybe this is something you wanna get started in the new year or just today.

We still have some weeks left. Don’t wait for the new year. Get started now. Get a head start being a plus overachiever. I’m excited about this one and everyone can hear about my YNAB win. Not to brag. 

Dr. Barb: Maggie has a YNAB win. Let’s cheer her on.

Maggie: You are gonna have to tune in and check it out. 

Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you [00:05:00] navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.

Maggie: Let’s get this party started. We are excited to have this podcast episode with Lindsey today. She’s one of our Purse Strings Approved Professional. She runs two businesses and she also loves her cats. And that’s what I know about Lindsey. No. So I’m gonna let you do your formal introduction, Lindsey, before we dive into all the fun.

Lindsey: Awesome. Thank you. Thanks Maggie. Yes, so my name is Lindsey Ciarrocca, as Maggie said, I actually have two businesses. The first one is with my husband. We are both financial planners. That is providers and families, wealth management, where we help our clients plan for their financial future, whatever that great life looks like we want to help them get there, and we want to be your lifelong partners to help you achieve your financial dreams. The second business I have is called the Exuberant Elephant, which is specifically for money and budget coaching. So I am a YNAB certified coach, and certified money coach, and I actually found my [00:06:00] way into financial services because a friend asked me to help her with her budget.

And I just kept coming back to this budgeting piece. So long story short, I ended up starting a whole second business for it, and that is now where I help people take control of their finances on a day-to-day basis. So they can figure out what’s coming in, what’s going out, and help them be intentional with their spending.

Maggie: And so like, why did you pick the name Exuberant Elephant? Every time I see it, I’m always like, I think I asked you this before.

Lindsey: Yes, there is a whole story to it and there’s a whole page on my website, so you’ll have to go check it out because I was working with a company to do the branding for my business and I wasn’t really wanting to use my own name for whatever reason. I wanted a name. As you mentioned, I like cats and my favorite color is also purple, which you’ll notice if you check out the website at all.

 So I had this thought about like, what about Purple Cat coaching? Just something super fun, super random, like, people would be like, oh, what is that conversation starter? Believe it or not, purple Cat coaching is taken.

Dr. Barb: Wow.

Lindsey: I think it’s the UK at least there was five years ago.

Somebody in the UK has Purple Cat [00:07:00] coaching. As I was going through it, part of the process that the branding company did was they interviewed people that I had already worked with and one of my past clients, one of the quotes from her was her exuberance about it made me want to learn more. And slight side story, my degree is actually in graphic design.

So when I was in school. One of our projects was to create a company and we had to build out our business cards and logos, letterhead, business cards, envelopes, all those sorts of things. And my company was the exuberant elephant, and it was a kids’ clothing company. So just reading that word exuberant, brought back the tie to my graphic design college days, and it was sort of like, oh, wouldn’t that be cool to have that tie in?

So I started thinking about it a little more and I started doing some research into elephants. And elephants actually have a lot of symbolism for money as well. So I thought it was all just a perfect fit. It all just kind of fell into place that this was the original [00:08:00] name I came up with in college.

It’s not the original branding. That’s why I said if you go onto the website, you can see the logo that I designed for that company, but brought it kind of all full circle and I thought that was pretty cool.

Maggie: I like that. Some reason I thought it was gonna be about like, you know, one bite at a time. Like that’s the only way you need an elephant ’cause you know, like it money seems like big to take on, but like elephants are sweet still. Who knows? 

Lindsey: Yeah, there’s all kinds of layers to it, so that’s why it’s pretty cool too, because you can talk about the elephant in the room that, you know, money is often mentioned as the elephant in the room. But then also just in other cultures like elephants and the symbolism with the money is pretty deep. So it’s pretty cool.

Maggie: I know you said before that you’ve hated math in school and then you share with us you have a graphic design degree. So what happened in the middle where we decided that yeah, we’re gonna teach women how to budget, and they kind of came to you it sounded like. So you must have had some knack.

Lindsey: Yes. So that’s kind of what it is. So, like I said, I [00:09:00] hated math in school. I remember crying over math and work in middle school because it was just like, I just don’t understand it. Like, why do I have to solve for X and Y? 

Dr. Barb: Oh, I hate that

Maggie: Oh my God. Get me in there. I love it.

Lindsey: Oh, no, no, no. So by my senior year of high school, I had taken pretty much all my art classes. So I just was like, well, I guess I’m going into art school. And went in there, got a degree in graphic design. I took one math class, my first semester of freshman year of college, and it was math for the liberal arts major.

And I was like, never touching math again. Fast forward. Probably eight, ten years. Got my degree in graphic design, was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I was working for a real estate photography company at the time, and a friend asked me to help her with her budget. To this day, I still don’t even know why she decided to ask me.

I think it might have been because maybe she just saw that I had bought a house and I was, seemed like I was doing well. You never really know what their situation is on the inside. But to her, it seemed like I knew what I was doing. So [00:10:00] she asked me to help her and I said, sure.

Didn’t even think twice about it. We sat down on a Friday night to look through her finances and at the end of it she was like, I’m so sorry to make you work on a Friday night. And I said, without even thinking. I was like, are you kidding? I love this stuff. I was like, oh. I should pay attention to this, right?

Because like I said, I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life at that point, eight years after graduating college. So I did, I looked into it. I paid attention to it because you know, you’re old saying of you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. So I was like, okay.

But at that point you think finances, you think financial advisor. So that’s where my mind went to, and I started connecting with advisors on LinkedIn, asking to pick their brain about the industry, find out more. Pretty much one thing led to another. Everything just again clicked, fell into place, everything felt right. From the time I met with my friend to the time I signed on with my original firm to start studying for my licenses was less than two months. Yep, this is it, like, [00:11:00] this feels right. I’m all about feelings. You know, so I went into financial services, got fully licensed as a financial advisor, doing investments, retirement planning.

But again, people just kept gravitating to me for budgeting and I just kept realizing like, oh, I really enjoy this. So I just kept doing it and decided that, you know, there is so much power in having control of your budget and knowing your numbers, that was what I was really passionate about in the financial space.

I mean, that’s an interesting story and I love how you kind of followed what you love to do and so having you from helping someone with their budget to being a financial advisor. And then now you are still an advisor, but you certified money coach. Can you share a little bit of the difference of the advisor role versus the coaching role and like why one person might go to, you know, that one hat versus the other hat? 

Honestly, we’ve had people in both situations. For the advisor role, that is really people that pretty much have a. A good [00:12:00] understanding of their day-to-day expenses, where their money goes, they’re spending less than they’re making, want to plan for their bigger goals.

So buying a house, having kids, retirement is always the big one, obviously for that piece of it. So those are the long-term planning aspects that we look at. For the coaching side, it is more of the day to day, every single day, where are you spending your money? What is it going towards? You know, the big question is, are you spending more than you’re making?

‘Cause most people are when they first come to me, like, it’s a lot of handholding. I meet with my clients on a weekly basis to start with, and we really look into, where’s your money going? But also, why do you spend the way you do? Or why do you think about money the way you do? How did you grow up with money? Because all of those deeper things are what’s affecting how you’re spending your money. So we can sit around all day long and I can say, oh, you shouldn’t buy your lattes every day or you shouldn’t buy presents for people. But until you [00:13:00] understand why you’re doing those things, it has more of an impact.

So we dive pretty deep on the coaching side.

Dr. Barb: It sounds like coaching therapy or money therapy.

Lindsey: It really is, and there is actually a financial therapy designation. Which I’ve looked into many times, but never gotten so, so, yes, it is basically financial therapy. I just can’t call myself a therapist because I’m not licensed. 

Dr. Barb: Yeah. Because so much of the reason why people kind of get themselves into trouble or whatever, first of all, it’s because we weren’t taught how to use money. That’s a big part of it. And you know, no shame, no blame. And the other part is so much of our childhood experiences is woven into the fabric of how we think about money.

Our knee-jerk reactions to how we either spend or don’t spend money. Our emotions around money, and it’s so innate that we just think it’s normal.

Maggie: You don’t know any other way sometimes.

Dr. Barb: Yeah, you don’t know any other way. And sometimes that, I think it roots its ugly head when you’re [00:14:00] in relationship with somebody else who thinks quite differently about it.

And then you kind of come to heads on why, why? Like you might have a spender with a saver or you might just have things where people don’t align and then they have to start thinking about unpacking, why do you think there’s so much scarcity? Or why do you think we get to spend this way, or whatever it might be?

And then that’s where they come to you, Lindsey, and you can start helping them unpack it and really realize what’s going on.

Lindsey: Right. It’s that awareness piece, and that’s one thing that I say to my clients all the time. It’s about becoming aware of what you’re thinking, how you’re feeling, how you grew up with it. Right? Where did these things come from? Because again, yes, you’re exactly right there. These are habits you’ve built over decades and you don’t even realize it.

So the first thing is we’re going to find them, become aware of them, so then we can start to change them.

Maggie: And give ourselves that grace that it’s not gonna change overnight. It took 20 years to build. It’s gonna take a, you know, maybe a year or two to knock down at least. 

Lindsey: I say that all the time. You did not get here overnight. You will not [00:15:00] get out of this overnight.

Maggie: I wish we could.

Lindsey: I wish we could, which is so hard because, we’re in such a instant gratification society.

Dr. Barb: Oh my God, yes.

Lindsey: We want to be out of it overnight, but it’s just not gonna happen.

Maggie: But Instagram tells me I can be.

Lindsey: Well?

Maggie: So I know a lot of people kind of avoid the whole budgeting aspect because it usually leads to this like, old mentality of just being really restrictive. And so how do you kind of reframe that belief? So it feels freeing and happy versus limiting.

Lindsey: Yeah, That’s a great question. That is one of the most common pushbacks I get is that budgeting is restrictive. It’s all about saying, no, you can’t do what you want. You can’t spend money on fun things. But what if we flip the script around and say, instead of saying no to everything, budgeting is actually about giving yourself permission to say yes to the things that are actually important to you. So again, it comes back to that awareness piece. We start with looking at where you’re spending your money really doing a deep dive and saying, is this important to you or would you [00:16:00] rather put it towards this other goal? So, it’s really all about the clarity that you can get when you start budgeting, because then you can be intentional with your finances.

Dr. Barb: Yeah, and it’s like, Hey, you know. Do you like when the lights go on? When you flip that switch? like when you think, oh, I have to pay all these utilities. Well, hot running water is really nice on a cold night when you wanna take a hot shower, so how lucky are you that you can just step in there and take it so you realize how lucky you are that you.

Get to pay your utilities. Right. And make choices like that for sure. That’s great. And so talk about moving from reactive to proactive with money. So what does that shift actually look like in a day-to-day life?

Lindsey: So that’s where I love the budgeting tool that I use with all of my clients, which is called YNAB, stands for You Need a Budget, and it’s basically a virtual envelope system. our parents might have taken out an envelope and written groceries on it and put cash inside of it.

It’s a digital version of that, so you [00:17:00] can only budget money that you have. But the key to that is it’s a real-time system so you can connect it to your accounts so it pulls in your transactions. So when you spend money on groceries, you can see in real time, ‘ oh, if I put a hundred dollars in there and I spent 25, I have 75 left’. Cause I always like to describe it as kind of like the old way of budgeting would be, I’d sit down on the first of the month and I would say, I expect to get paid $5,000 and here’s how I think I we’ll spend it. Most of the time you put it away for 30 days, you forget about it. You come back at the end of the month and say, ‘ okay, how would I do?’

At that point, you can’t change anything. YNAB is meant to be a system that you use on a regular basis so you can see, do I have money in this category or not? And that’s one of the keys to being successful with it, is finding the money before you spend it.

Dr. Barb: So it’s kind of like if you only have $75 in that envelope, even though it’s virtual and you’re at the grocery store [00:18:00] and you spend 82. You gotta find seven more dollars somewhere.

Lindsey: Exactly. So it’s again, going back to being intentional with where can I move $7 from, or am I not going to spend $7 because this other thing is more important, and I’d rather keep the money there.

Dr. Barb: You’re very, very close to watching your money every single day. Then.

Lindsey: And in the beginning, some people have to be like, my husband and I were there, there were times years ago where we would be in the grocery store. He would have his phone out adding prices up, and we’re making decisions on whether or not we should be buying these things. Like what is our total going to be?

Maggie: And so like, what if it’s the 14th, you get paid the 15th, you’re going to the grocery, and so like, you know, more money’s hitting tomorrow. Do you like restrict yourself then? Do you know what I mean? Like that kind of like cusp situation where you’re like, I just need to get groceries for the week.

I’m getting paid tomorrow. It’s all gonna wash out.

Lindsey: Kind of depends on the situation. So in the beginning you might have to be like, well, I have to buy [00:19:00] groceries, I have to put it on a credit card. I know I’m getting paid tomorrow. I’ll fill the category up tomorrow. In an ideal situation, your paycheck that you’re getting tomorrow is funding next month.

Dr. Barb: Oh,

Lindsey: So you’re not even worried about what’s coming up in the next week, the next two weeks. You are what they call in the YNAB world, you’re a month ahead. So you’ve broken that paycheck to paycheck cycle. 

Dr. Barb: I like that. 

Maggie: That makes sense. I’m kind of interested of, like, you became a YNAB coach and you say it’s kind of confusing to learn and so I feel like some people within an app, and if you’re like, it’s confusing to learn someone needs to coach me on an app like that sounds like a lot, like an app should be intuitive.

So like why is there so much coaching needed around it? And I feel part of it is like this whole mental game that we have with money. But like, can you give some more insight in there?

Lindsey: Yes, so like I said, it was confusing for me when I first started. I heard about YNAB for the first time in 2017. I think two people told me about it in the same day. And I was like, wait a minute. How have I never heard of this software? So

of course I’m going to [00:20:00] go deep diving into this. And the biggest thing is changing how you think about budgeting.

It’s a zero based budgeting system, which to most people may not mean anything, but it’s really goes back to that you can only budget the money you have. So if you have $2,000 in your checking account, or if you have $200 in your checking account, that’s all you have to work with. Whereas going back to that old school budgeting, oh, I’m gonna get 5,000 this month, so I’m gonna just budget it all, budget it all. Actually just made a video on this, like the most common mistake I see people doing.

So it’s just shifting the way you’re thinking about budgeting from that first of the month doing everything and then putting it away to this real-time system we’re interacting with on a daily basis.

Maggie: Yeah, that first month system never would work. Especially ’cause it’s like, I forget that someone’s birthday’s on the 22nd, or, I didn’t know I wanted to go out to dinner on the 27th. Like I didn’t know Billy was coming to town. Like, who knows? Like, I was always like, how am I supposed to [00:21:00] predict what I’m gonna do this month?

I mean, I know vaguely, but not like per the dime, and so it was always very confusing and not very successful in that way.

Lindsey: where you can start to flip the script with YNAB Because you know you’re going to go out to eat someday. You know you’re going to have friends come, you know you’re going to travel, you know you’re going to have car repair bills and medical expenses, and vet bills. So you start putting money into all those buckets.

 Maybe it’s not right away. Again, maybe you don’t have that luxury right in the first couple months that you’re using it. But over time, that key piece being, if you’re spending less than you’re bringing in. So let’s say you’re spending $3,500 a month and you’re bringing in 4,000. So you’re always gonna have a little bit more to start to build in those categories.

so the travel one, it just sits there for maybe three months until you do travel and then you have a pot of money to pull from.

Maggie: I’ve been listening to you for a while now on our money talks, on our different sessions. So I did make an account just for my [00:22:00] car and so I was like putting $50 a month in there and I was like, I know it’s not gonna cover everything, but I went to go get my oil change and everything else and it was so great just taking that out of that bucket and like still having all my extra money left over ’cause it wasn’t like a huge dent. Now they did gimme $6,000 more of work that they thought I should get done in the near future. So I might need to up that. But like for the tire rotation and the oil change, I was like, look at me, look at me.

Lindsey: That is called a YNAB win. You have the money waiting for a job. Like does anyone want to have pay money for their tires to be rotated? No, but

you have the money sitting there.

Maggie: And every time I’m like shocked how much it costs. Like even though I know every six months we’re gonna be in there, we’re gonna do the thing, you know? And so I was like, even if there’s more in this account, I know they’re gonna want it sometime. So I mean, and that’s like with vet Bills too. Like I can’t tell you when, but I know you’re giving me that face for listeners who are just listening and not watching.

Lindsey: I think we’ve had this conversation about how [00:23:00] much I’ve spent on vet bills this year.

Maggie: And it’s like you don’t know when it’s gonna come, but you know it’s gonna come.

Lindsey: I will quote my dad here. He always told me, everything in your life needs maintenance.

Dr. Barb: Mm-hmm.

Lindsey: And that was always a thing. And it’s like, okay, so, and that maintenance is gonna cost money, whether it’s pets, cars, your own body, your house, any of those things.

So yeah, they’re gonna happen.

Dr. Barb: But let me ask you this, so maintenance, so you wouldn’t have a maintenance account, you would have a maintenance for your house, a maintenance for your car, a maintenance for your pets in YNAB?

Lindsey: It depends. I have all of those and more obviously, but how much work makes sense for you? I have some clients who I don’t care what it is if it’s travel related. It’s just the travel category. For me, I break it down into, well, what’s accommodation? What was transportation? What was food?

What was dining out? What was groceries like? I get a little obsessive with it, but you can also work up to that point, So maybe you don’t have all these categories to start with because that’s overwhelming and you [00:24:00] don’t have all the money to put in it. But over time you can add a category and start adding your 25, 50 bucks to it a month because

that’ll be something when that expense comes up.

Dr. Barb: are these just categories in the app or are these actual bank accounts with, all these different 

Lindsey: There are just categories in the app. So that is the beauty of it, is that you don’t need multiple bank accounts. And it’s actually more confusing if you do have multiple bank accounts, because YNAB doesn’t care where the money is. Let’s say if you have two checking accounts and you have a thousand dollars in one.

Yeah, and 3000 in one, and maybe your rent is coming out and it’s $1,800. If you look at your categories, you have $1,800. But if it’s coming from the account that only has a thousand dollars in it, you will likely overdraw that account. Does that make sense? So in the YNAB world, it’s easier to have everything in just one checking account.

Maggie: And so do you recommend like [00:25:00] those longer, I’m gonna quote like longer term accounts like the pet fund and the car fund all kind of hold in a high yield savings account, and that way they earn some interest and it’s not like your normal day to day checking account.

Lindsey: Yes, because I was gonna say, all that being said, caveat to say that as you start to use the system, you’re going to build up money in your checking account, and all of a sudden you have few thousand dollars and it’s earning nothing. So over the last couple years, as interest rates have gone up, yes, I have a high yield savings account.

It’s just one bucket for all of the other categories. So in our checking account, I just keep, you know, a few thousand, but the high yield is sitting there with thousands of dollars in it, just making money. But I can see exactly what it’s all earmarked for in YNAB.

Maggie: And then my last question on this, on this before we move to the next question is are you building an emergency fund on top of this? Because I feel like a lot of these things are kind of like your emergency fund for the pet, your emergency fund for the car, you [00:26:00] know your emergency fund for the house, and so are you milling an emergency fund on top of that?

And how the heck are you saving that much money?

Lindsey: So that is a highly debated question in the YNAB world, and you’re exactly right that in the sense that if you’re saving for all these other things, you don’t need an emergency fund. 

Dr. Barb: Because that is your emergency fund. 

Lindsey: That is your emergency fund. That being said, I do have a separate emergency fund because my husband and I are both self-employed.

It’s more of a paycheck fund if something were to happen and we couldn’t pay ourselves this month, it’s going in there or in the case that just happened recently, we had $3,000 in the vet bill, but we spent 3,900. So I took that 900 from our emergency fund.

Maggie: And I appreciate you kind of being honest of like those envelopes are not always as full as they need to be. I mean, those pet bills, I mean, you never know. You could have three grand and one day they need 10. You just never know. 

Lindsey: We could have a whole episode about the money we’ve spent on a cat this year and how our fund has gone up and down. Like I wrote an email on it, I think maybe in like February or [00:27:00] March where I was like, I started the year with $1,200 and vet bill funds, and we’re at about 50 now.

And it’s been more since then, so.

Dr. Barb: Wow,

Lindsey: The win being, I only took $900 from our emergency fund. Mm-hmm.

Maggie: Yeah.

You’re prepared. Yeah. And so many women who are listening are juggling family, maybe businesses caretaking and you know, everything in between. So what’s a simple budgeting habit that can help ’em make money decisions with less stress and more clarity.

Lindsey: So the very first thing that I have all of my clients do has nothing to do with numbers or money. It’s about finding your motivation, finding your financial why or a goal that is more important to you than the discomfort of budgeting or looking at your debt numbers. So I always tell them like, find something that really resonates with you, that like punches you in the gut and you’re like, that’s why I am doing this, because that goal is more [00:28:00] important than all of these other things. 

Dr. Barb: What do some people say?

Lindsey: So the one client that came to top of my security, peace and joy, that is hers. Yeah. Some of it’s just financial freedom, not having to worry about can I pay for groceries this week. Ours right now is a property in New Mexico, so my husband and I went to New Mexico a couple months ago.

 And both totally fell in love and we’re like, we were joking around like, oh, wouldn’t it be cool to like buy a property out here? And then we were there for a couple days and we’re like, but actually, like, what would we need to do to make this happen?

Get our the YNAB. 

So while we were there, I put a category in our budget for a New Mexico property.

And just the other day my husband was going, my husband’s a runner. So he had wanted a new pair of running shoes and he was running some errands and he was going out and he came back and he was like, I decided not to buy the shoes. And I was like, why not? He’s like, well, I was looking at the category and I saw I didn’t have enough money in my running shoe category ’cause yes, he has a running shoe category [00:29:00] and I was thinking about a New Mexico property. That was just like, I’m so proud of you.

Maggie: You are thinking about us.

Lindsey: So it just made the decisions easy, right?

Maggie: Yeah. I mean it’s definitely your driver of what gets you every day. Right. And so, that’s awesome. I love that. And we wait to come visit you in New Mexico. 

Dr. Barb: Wonderful.

I think this has been really interesting. I’m glad we dug into the YNAB, because I know it’s such a unique, way to budget and you’re the pro to ask and dig into it. So I’ve learned a lot already from it, so super cool. And what I love the most, I think, is it really keeps you financially conscious and focused on your specific goals.

I mean, on a day-to-day basis, which I love ’cause so often we get kind of, you know, yeah, I have this goal, and then when paycheck time comes, you kind of flub it a little bit or ebb and flow, but really with what you’re doing, like your husband did, you look daily on what’s the best way to really focus [00:30:00] on our funds, our limited funds that come in.

How am I making the best decisions for what we wanna do for our families, for our goals, short and long term, you know, you’re really making conscious decision and I love it.

I’ve heard it said that the numbers around money are not emotional. The numbers are data. They give you information. So looking at the numbers and saying, I don’t have enough for my shoes that I want, is helping you make those informed decision.

Maggie: I’m glad we’re kind of doing this closer to the end of the year. So like people could, you know, maybe download the app and kind of start like a new year with the app and give it a try at least for a year ’cause these things, you know, they do take a second to implement.

They’re not gonna have magic in a month. I mean, you might, but it takes a while to get into the routine.

Lindsey: The other thing I tell clients too, like kind of how you mentioned before, like how do I know what I’m gonna do this month or next month? Like it really does take a full year to see what you really spend money on ’cause there’s always that Costco membership that comes up that you forgot about or that auto insurance renewal.

So it’s okay to add those [00:31:00] to your budget as you go because it’s a living, breathing thing that’s flexible and not rigid and restrictive. 

Maggie: Yeah, if you could remember everything that you’re gonna pay throughout the year, damn, that’s impressive.

Dr. Barb: Well, yeah, within the whole year. Then the next year everything’s been accounted for, for the most part. Right. You are strengthening that muscle right over a whole year and getting into that routine, which is really super cool.

Lindsey: Or maybe once you realize you paid off your phone, you start putting that extra into a new phone fund.

Because that will come up again. You’re going to get a new phone, right? Does it need to be the newest, latest, greatest, most expensive one? No.

Maggie: Maybe

Lindsey: It 

depends. 

If that’s your priority, maybe.

Maggie: The apple does not fall far from the tree. No. Um. No. Lindsey, this has been a great conversation and so I know you do coaching with people if they want, you know, more information on how to do YNAB. But you also do some videos on YouTube as well so people can get some tips to get started.

Lindsey: Yep. I have [00:32:00] recently started a YouTube channel so that I can do some YNAB videos, because like I said, it’s a little confusing to set up, but if you have somebody walking you through it, it’s so much easier. So I have a YouTube channel. I have a podcast that I’ve started for myself as well. And then everything I do is on my website as well.

And there’s tons of free resources that you can find there to get you started.

Maggie: We’ll have all that in the show notes, but before we close out, we have to ask you, Lindsey, what is your own definition of financial freedom?

Lindsey: Well, financial freedom, or as I like to call it, financial exuberance. It’s really a place where you are using money as a tool. It’s not a burden on your shoulders. It’s a tool that helps you live your greatest life. You know, maybe that’s a space where you can build a business. Donate to causes that you’re passionate about, but really most importantly to me, I want to create a ripple effect around the world because money in the hands of women can have powerful impacts, [00:33:00] not only in our own community, but beyond.

So I want to get women to that place so that they can be impacting the greater good.

Maggie: Say it louder for the people in the back.

Dr. Barb: Amen sister.

Maggie: and Have you ever pet an elephant?

Lindsey: You know, I’ve actually been to Africa and was on an African safari, but did not see an elephant.

Maggie: Maybe we gotta get Africa back on the list or just the local zoo. This has been great. Thank you so much, Lindsey for coming on, sharing your expertise. Check out her podcast and all her good information in the show notes. And until next time, be financially fearless.

Outro: You’ve been listening to Women Money, the shit we don’t talk about. Now it’s time to take what you’ve learned and make bold moves towards financial independence. Stay in the know by joining our newsletter for exclusive tools, resources, and updates that keep you financially fearless. Head to PurseStrings. co and sign up today. Need a financial professional who gets it? Turn to PurseStrings Curated Directory, [00:34:00] your go to resource for financial experts who know how to put you first. Love this episode? Leave us a review and help us empower even more women to own their financial power. Until next time, be financially fearless. 

Setting Holiday Boundaries Without Busting Your Budget with Lisa Chastain

Setting Holiday Boundaries Without Busting Your Budget with Lisa Chastain

The holidays don’t have to break the bank or your sanity.

This week, we’re joined by Lisa Chastain, a renowned expert in personal finance and dedicated to empowering passionate and successful women to overcome the shame and guilt surrounding their finances. Lisa has built her entire career supporting individuals to rewire their money mindset and adopt a strategic framework to focus on healthy spending rather than restrictive budgeting. 

Lisa shares how childhood experiences shape our holiday spending habits, why quality time beats quantity of gifts every time, and the five money personalities that show up when December rolls around. We also dive into her favorite holiday hacks, like stacking credit card points, creating “holiday-only” savings accounts, and forecasting your finances months in advance.

Whether you’re worried about overspending on gifts, feeling guilty about saying no to parties, or just wanting to make this holiday season more meaningful, this conversation is packed with perspective shifts and practical tips you can use right now.

Follow & connect with Lisa:

• Website 
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Here’s some of what we discuss in this episode: 

00:00 Intro: The Ultimate Mantra
00:46 Navigating Financial Independence
01:03 Guest Introduction: Lisa Chastain
02:03 Setting Holiday Boundaries
04:17 Shifting Holiday Mindsets
07:47 Money Personalities and Holiday Spending
11:23 Strategic Holiday Planning
15:15 Credit Card Points and Holiday Savings
19:45 Values-Based Holiday Planning

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Episode Transcript

(This transcript was generated using AI, so please excuse any misspellings or errors)

Barb: Maggie, what’s your favorite holiday memory from when you were a child?

Maggie: It’s all about the magic. First of all, I still love like stockings just because it has every, the little things that you need. You never know. I just love a little goodie. But one year, we were younger, we got you guys up out of bed, blah, blah, blah. Went downstairs, did our Christmas thing.

And of course dad was like, you know, the story. Dad was like, I think I heard something upstairs. And so we went upstairs and there was like this big chest there for you as a gift. And it was just one of those things, like we had no idea how it got there when he did it. Like he seemed to be there the whole time.

And I just remember being like. What the heck? Like how did that happen? Because usually, not usually, but

Barb: Always, you can figure it out. That’s what you were gonna say, right, Maggie? Yes. I know you little booger. You can always figure out a surprise.

Maggie: try to, I love to be surprised, [00:01:00] but it just is like I’ll end up having to grab something. Or like one time we were looking all around the house for something, so like, I saw the TV that you guys bought, and I was like, no, I didn’t know. But that one I was like, I had, and it was one of those things like I don’t really care about a chest, and it wasn’t even for me, but I’m still just like awestruck of how it happened.

The magic.

Barb: It was magic. It wasn’t there and then all of a sudden it was, and you didn’t know how it happened. So you were probably very frustrated. ’cause you know everything. You were a little girl that always figured everything out before we could even surprise you. That was the problem.

Maggie: but I still love a surprise, so sometimes I just try to pretend like I’m not even, I don’t even try to look, ’cause I want to be surprised, like I have to hold myself back. But I know I’d love a surprise later.

Barb: Yeah. Well, and I I remember when we tied all the packages up.

Maggie: Brown paper packages tied up in string.

Barb: Yes. That’s what we did one year

And then we’d always play spoons right in front of the fireplace with our dog, Bachi. Who [00:02:00] always wanna sit right in the middle. Right. And you guys would always make cookies.

Maggie: Yeah, it’s always my thing is making some cookies. I’ll feed you guys some cookies. Anyone who’s listening. ’cause I usually like to make at least five kinds, but in a house full of three people, that’s a little aggressive.

Barb: It’s a lot of cookies. Yeah. And they’re great. And then nice Christmas morning breakfast.

Usually a nice strata and a coffee cake, all homemade. And nice, hearty, healthy winter walk outside with the dog.

Maggie: And then you would usually take a nap and make us all watch the sound of music.

Some reason women your age love the sound of music. I don’t know what it is, but like your generation, the hills were aligned.

Barb: They’re alive, not aligned.

Maggie: They’re straight hills. Okay? They’re all in a row.

Barb: And I didn’t hear you say one thing about a gift.

Maggie: I mean, we had some good ones, but yeah, it was always the magic behind it. Like one year we got a game cube, which was crazy and we’re like, it doesn’t fit in the [00:03:00] tv. ’cause the TV didn’t have like the red, yellow and white little pro things. It was a really small tv and you’re like, go down and just double check. There was a new TV with the three little prongs in it and we’re like, look at that. It was magic.

Barb: I know. I just wave my magic little wand.

Maggie: I know you do. That’s always you up all night putting together the toys. Loving to stay up late

and put some magic.

but.

I know the holidays can be stressful for people as well, we have these great memories, but I know there’s a lot of stress and a lot of hard work and a lot of anxiety sometimes going into it, of making sure everything’s done. But we’re just gonna flashback and remember why we’re all here.

And that’s really to enjoy the time, enjoy the magic, and it’s not always about all the spending.

Barb: No. And after this conversation with Lisa, I’m really taking away, the memories of. When we went downtown and got some hot chocolate, went to the little outside mart, even though it was so darn cold, but we had some nice hot chocolate and we just [00:04:00] strolled through the cold and things like that.

Those are memories that I cherish and love and remember and really wanna delve more into those types of memories. You and I took that little holiday bus one night member around the city and things like that, which was so beautiful and fun. And just those types of events and time spent together are really what’s fun around the holiday time.

Maggie: And I think this is also a great time. I always have to remember that some people do love to give and I have to let them love to do that. It is their love language and I have to let them do their love language.

Barb: people don’t have to feel pressured to give 

Maggie: No, but you know, you gotta let people do what they wanna do. I’m gonna wanna push cookies on you.

That’s the way it is. Not everyone wants a sugar. I do.

Barb: well, let’s 

get into what Lisa has to say. She has some amazing, great vibe around great ways to engage. holidays and not be stressed out about money.

Maggie: So put your feet up and take a listen.

[00:05:00] Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don’t talk about.

Maggie: For this episode, we are thrilled to have Lisa Chastain with us today. So before we dive into all about, setting holiday boundaries, without busting your budget, could you share a little bit who you are and what you do with our community?

Lisa: Absolutely. I’m a full-time money mindset coach, and I’m on a mission just like purse strings for women to be the leaders of the world financially, which is gonna take some mindset work for us to get there. Wasn’t always great with money. I’m a blue collar girl, [00:06:00] born and raised here in Las Vegas, and so just like my dad says, I was raised in the school of money by some hard knocks through financial failure.

Even as a financial advisor, I had so many things that I had to learn about money and what I’m really passionate about mechanics of money, they’re important, budgeting, cash flow, those kinds of things. But my heart is with helping women understand why they make the decisions that they make, really getting to the root cause of what motivates us financially.

And so I’m really excited to hop into this conversation about the holidays today.

Maggie: Yeah, we’re excited. As I know, the holidays can bring up a lot of emotions, especially a lot around money and spending. It can kind of be like a financial minefield. So how do people shift from like the stress and guilt to setting clear healthy boundaries about spending?

Lisa: So I’ll take you on a journey because I love having this conversation with my clients and also with different groups. If you individually think about what was most important to you and [00:07:00] what you remember about your holidays, most people I ask that question to is not around the number of toys or gifts that were under the tree

Almost always when I ask point blank to someone, what do you remember about the holidays that you want to hold onto? It’s the memories they have with their family, and I think that’s a great way to cut through the noise and the chaos of the spending frenzy and all the marketing that we’re getting from different people who want our money for the holidays. It’s a huge time of year. I get that. But before we jump into spending, let’s think about and be intentional about what are the memories from our childhood that we’re trying to recreate, and is that really what we want? Are we just operating out of a program from our childhood that’s what we should be doing?

And that’s a game changer for a lot of my clients.

Barb: Yeah, I get that. Because holidays are so different for each one of us, depending on. Our family of origin and how we were brought up. And I’ve said this before, but you [00:08:00] know, I’m one of 13 children, so you can imagine our holidays were quite different than the holiday I tried to create for my own children, which was two, so, very different and in so, so many ways.

Always wanting to make sure it was, of course, like we all do, special, meaningful that, I always wanted to make sure every holiday had like an extra special gift that they remembered that exact holiday for. I actually hate the holidays for that reason. It’s so stressful.

It’s so, I need one more this, I need one more That, did I get enough? I’m counting who got what, and it’s never enough. You feel like you’re never done.

Lisa: Yeah, that’s scarcity. Talking right there, talking about money, mindset, that scarcity, that it won’t be enough. And let’s hone in on our children for a minute. What do we want for our children? We want them to know that they’re loved. Without even realizing it unconsciously, we’re connecting and attaching what we spend on them and what we give [00:09:00] them to love, and they don’t need any of that to feel loved.

So one of our favorite holiday traditions is we go out and serve. Because we want the holidays to be about so much more than what they have under the tree. And actually now that my boys are teenagers, we go to experiences. We’re taking our kids to Disneyland. We’re not gonna fill the tree full of gifts.

Yes, that will require us to spend some money, but it’s quality time. And the research backs this up when it comes to spending. The more you spend on experiences, the happier you are versus the things.

Maggie: that makes so much sense. I mean, and you think about like any part of your childhood, the big things that pop out are always like a family trip, big or small, even if it was like a road trip to see someone a couple hours away, it was still like, remember that bus stop that we saw and all those people, or just some goofy things that you can’t even plan for or pay for.

It’s just like the adventure along the way. How do you kind of shift though from. You have your children, but then you have everybody in your life that you feel like you have to get something for the house cleaner, the mailman, the [00:10:00] babysitter, the teacher, all these people where it’s like, that is where I feel like the budget breaks because then you’re like, I don’t remember if I got something for them.

Did I get something last year? Blah blah, blah. And people are putting stuff out for the Amazon guys, and it’s just like, alright, like where, I get that everyone wants to feel seen, but then it’s like, alright, now, like, come on.

Lisa: Yeah, it becomes a tit for tat, well, you got me something so I have to get you something. And in my twenties for sure, I was in that rat race, if you call it that, of I wanna make sure that someone gets something then it always goes back to.

Something maybe that we’re imagining from childhood or Disney taught us this, that there’s this magic of opening a gift on Christmas morning. And Scrooge will tell us that it doesn’t matter. That’s not the thing that matters. At the end of the day, tiny Tim taught us everything. That it’s the people in our lives that are most important.

So the question becomes, what can we do then? To make someone feel appreciated and [00:11:00] loved. If it’s not buying a gift, a simple letter of appreciation or taking a walk with someone, quality time trumps physical objects when it comes to showing our appreciation for people, which also requires you to be strategic with your time.

I love my husband for so many reasons, and this is his holiday tradition. He bakes pies. So we don’t give traditional gifts. We don’t spend time buying gifts for the people that we love, but the people on the list know that there’s a blueberry pie coming for them and they cherish that.

that doesn’t cost a lot of money. But everybody knows that Jimmy’s gonna bring ’em a blueberry pie.

Maggie: And how many blueberry pies are you gonna get? I mean, you’re not gonna get any doubles, sadly, almost. 

Lisa: That’s right, but you only get it once a year. Everybody loves it. So I think that we’re in a great space and place in our culture and as women to just reimagine and revisit what the holidays are all about altogether.

Barb: I love that reframing of it and really thinking outside the box instead of just buying [00:12:00] something off the shelf, being more, human, more personalized, more thinking about, taking a walk or writing a note about. A memory or something that you just would love to say to someone that maybe you just didn’t have time to say before.

So that’s really beautiful. I love it. And if you’ve talked before about ditching, like strict budgets, right? And focusing on a money personality instead. So can you share a little bit about that and how that plays into managing holiday expenses without feeling restricted?

Lisa: Yeah, every money personality’s gonna have a different attachment to what they want to spend. And I’ll give you a good example of this. So there’s five money personalities in my world, and there are lots of iterations of this, but in my world, we keep it pretty simple. We have the saver, the giver, the spender, the dreamer, and the avoider.

You can imagine with each five of those personalities, who is going to value what, when it comes to the holiday season. I have a client they live in New Jersey. The wife is a [00:13:00] spender. The husband’s a saver, he’s very diligent and thoughtful in the way that he spends money.

And also he doesn’t need a lot of material things. He’s not a materialistic kind of guy. And so for Christmas, when it comes to their two kids, this is where they fight. The most because he’s telling her, babe, like we just don’t need that much. Let’s just get them one quality thing because savers think in terms of quality over quantity.

And she says, that’s not how I was raised. Spending money is my love language and we’ve gotta have all the gifts because that’s what we did as kids. So it almost always goes back to childhood and how we learned how the holidays are supposed to be, and each of these money personalities are going to have different attachments based on what they value.

Most importantly, what they believe when it comes to money. The Dreamer money personality has a different mindset With money. The avoider is going to avoid the conversation altogether. And so that also pertains to our individual strengths. And when we look at the disc profile, there’s other [00:14:00] kinds of assessments out there.

 People have different strengths when it comes to money. A saver could be based on their strengths, a good budgeter, but they also could be holding the purse strings. And like choking the other partner by saying, no, we can’t spend any money at all, even though we have millions and millions in the bank. So we gotta check ourselves on that.

And to be honest with you, most people that I know and work with might have a budget, but they don’t really follow it strategically. So I prefer to go back to a vision for the holidays and start with that. What is our vision for the holiday? What’s the experience that we want to create with our kiddos?

What’s most important to us about this holiday season? And realize on the national average, per individual, right now in America, it’s $800.

Barb: Wow.

Lisa: Now for a family of 13, that would add up pretty fast. Right?

Barb: That wasn’t what was spent. That maybe total out of everyone, But I, 

Lisa: I would say that the reason for that is that we’re not being [00:15:00] intentional. We’re just on the go train. That money equals happiness and that these gifts are going to equal something. And that’s just not the case when it comes to research and psychological studies. So be mindful of that. And ask yourself this before you spend any money.

Is it worth it? Is it going to be worth going into debt? Is it going to be worth taking money outta savings? Only you can answer that question.

Barb: Yeah, for sure. And the other thing I felt, or I saw was when my children were young, was the. Kind of keeping up with the Joneses, especially when the children are like, this is the biggest toy out there and everyone is getting it. That’s a tough place to be because sometimes those toys are very expensive and hard to find and all of that.

Right. So that was a tough time, but I’m with you on the experiences though, too.

Lisa: When it comes to budgeting, the best thing you can do is get ahead of it. And if we know, the national average is $800. Now would be the time listening to this [00:16:00] episode in this moment to understand if you’re not budgeting, I prefer financial forecasting. I prefer to look at my finances six months ahead of time where I know exactly how much I have come December or November.

And so if you know that’s the national average that we’re working with, what do you have? Versus what don’t you have? That’s a quick reframe for you to look at as a family. Okay, well what do we have to spend on Christmas? And then how do we manage that and how do we plan for that? That’s a way more fun conversation versus looking at a budget and saying, well, we don’t have anything.

And I think sometimes we default to that and that’s not a helpful or healthy money mindset in my opinion.

Maggie: $800, I would’ve guessed higher. A hundred percent. I mean, as a single person, I can see spending 800 between like family and stuff, maybe a little less, but like if you had kids and stuff, 

Barb: Wait, isn’t that 800 per person?

Lisa: 800 per person.

Maggie: like you spend on each person.

Lisa: 600. It’s 600 to $800 per person, which is similar to the back to school spending.

Maggie: [00:17:00] Oh.

Lisa: And it just keeps going up every year, of course. ’cause electronics are more expensive. Kids want those kinds of things. That’s my least favorite kind of financial advice to give is do this, don’t do this.

It’s just a more of a, like, can you be more thoughtful about it? And at the end of the day, what’s going to matter most? The kid in that moment, yeah, they might realize that they’re not getting the iPad or the thing, but over, over the course of time, it ends up evening out in experiential happiness and memories that they’re making because kids wanna spend quality time with the people that they love the most. 

Maggie: So many of us feel pressure to say yes. To everything during the holidays. So what mindset shifts help you kind of say no without the guilt and sometimes without the fomo?

Lisa: That’s a tough one. And I think it’s going to depend on what stage of life we’re in and realize that every decision that we make is emotional. It’s hard to take the emotions out of it. So when it comes to fomo, future pace yourself. This is a neurolinguistic programming strategy. And ask [00:18:00] yourself this, is this going to matter when I’m dead, like hardcore?

Probably not. Okay. And if it is FOMO or the pressure of saying yes to everything, realize that your mental energy and your physical wellness matters more than anything. It serves no one for you to run yourself ragged in the holiday season. Again, that’s scarcity. We wanna be abundant and abundance means that I have self-love, I have boundaries, and I understand the role that I play in these people’s lives.

Renegotiate if you can’t make it to every single holiday party, pick the one that’s most important to you with the people that you know you’re going to be really happy about being around. Start there and renegotiate anything. Say no to anything that isn’t going to matter to you when you’re dead.

Most of it will not matter.

Maggie: Yeah, I’m thinking like those old holiday work parties I used to go to that were just like, now Barb and I, we just do a little celebration. But when some of those, it’s like we’re, even if you’re trying to show face to be good at the [00:19:00] business, it’s like, ah, this is not where I would like to spend my energy right now.

Especially when you have a thousand different things to do and you’ve already seen a thousand different people and you’re like, this is not the one I’m gonna say yes to.

Lisa: Yeah. I talk about a general generational conflict. I think that we learned a lot from the boomers in terms of obligation. And millennials, but more so Gen Z right now are basically saying, I don’t subscribe to those philosophies. No, thank you. I think we have a lot to learn from Gen Z and their ability to put the boundaries in place and just realize that we don’t have to be everything to everybody.

Maggie: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Barb: So what’s one surprising money habit you encourage? That actually frees people up during such a busy season.

Lisa: Credit card points.

Barb: Oh, say more.

Lisa: Yeah, we just had this conversation in our mastermind with a gentleman who came and taught us all about the ways that you can maximize credit card points, but how cool would that be? Let’s just say that you find a really good cashback card [00:20:00] and for the entire year. So I do this candidly, and I have a few different places where I like put money away.

For the holidays. Acorns is another place where 25 bucks a week goes into my Acorns account and I just stack the cash. So lots of different places you can kind of squirrel it away. But with credit card points, if you had one great cash back card, and there are a lot that are on the market right now, even for using your debit card, you can get cash back and you can allocate those points or that cash back for the holidays.

Then all year long, starting right after the holidays, you can start accumulating those points and seeing there’s different times in the year too where you can use those points and maximize them. So how cool would that be? You could earn points in cash back and then use those for the holidays. And then girl math, it’s basically free,

Barb: That’s brilliant. 

Lisa: Yeah. So use the hacks that are out there. Credit card points didn’t exist 20 years ago, but they do today. And so I’m not really a hardcore, no credit cards, [00:21:00] all kinds of things. It’s just let’s use what we have available to us. And Acorns, even Coinbase to a certain extent I invest in different with.

Discernment. I invest in different stocks and I am seeing those rewards, and then I cash ’em out for the holidays and we’re good to go. We just don’t have to stress about the holidays. We know they’re coming once a year,

Maggie: Yeah, we always act

Lisa: strategically, right? Like, oh my gosh, it’s here.

Barb: Back in the day when I worked at a bank, we used to have Christmas accounts. People would open them up, you’d get a little present almost when you opened them up and they would be like you would deposit a certain amount every month, $25, $50, whatever, every month. You’d open ’em up at the beginning of the year, and then at the end of the month you would draw all your money, it’d be closed out, and that was your Christmas money

they were actually called Christmas accounts. And they even had [00:22:00] vacation accounts too. So same difference. They’re not tagged that anymore. But you could use savings accounts that same way where people dedicated money towards these certain, places they knew that they would eventually spend their money.

Lisa: But I love the idea of points because we use ours for travel, but certainly for Christmas is brilliant because several hundred dollars is probably stacked up by the end of the year. That’s right. That’s right. So use the resources that you have available to you think ahead of time. Not everybody does that successfully, but let’s do that to the best of our ability. And I’m a huge fan. So instead of budgeting, that’s what I implement. I have different accounts for different purposes. I know exactly what money I have for the week, what I have money for the long term.

So by teaching your brain how to see your money, brilliant. Right? Open up an account that’s just for the holidays, stack money away every single month. You get paid biweekly or whenever you get paid, every paycheck put a little bit away, and then it’s less pressure. It’s a little bit easier. It feels [00:23:00] better.

Another thing I would suggest is to go back and look at what you spent on Christmas the last year and the year before. Give yourself some averages to work with before you set up some type of saving strategy. That helps a lot.

Maggie: Yeah, that way you actually have a real number to work with. ’cause sometimes we just pull one out of thin air and it doesn’t quite add up. But the points are so funny, and I know this could be a whole different conversation, but I was, bickering with my brother the other day. And we were talking about, he’s like, I don’t get how people get these, all these flights with their points.

He’s like, I never have ’em, because he always applies them to his credit card. So the bill’s smaller every month, and I was like, well, yeah, you don’t like build them up and spend them. He goes, well, yeah, but why wouldn’t I put them to my credit card every month? And I’m like, well, they’re not gonna be both.

You only get them once. Right? And so it’s just kind of really having that plan of like, it’s for the trip or it’s for, it’s like already pre allocating them as well, you can’t send ’em now and again later. So you gotta figure out how to, is it a trip? Is it Christmas? When are we gonna use ’em?

Or just every month.

Lisa: Sure. And I mean that [00:24:00] industry is super savvy now and you can transfer points from one place to the next and really maximize your points. So if you’re gonna go that route, I say maximize everything that you can, but coming in full steam ahead to the holidays.

Just be honest with where you’re at and come back to what is the memory that you’re trying to recreate. ’cause the whole point of that is that you can’t. And if you’re trying to recreate memories, you’re attached to something that is not realistic. So come back to self. Look at your values. Value-based planning, values-based living, what do you value most and operate accordingly financially.

Maggie: And I think that kind of leads right into our next question. ’cause we talk about, money freedom isn’t about perfection, it’s about intention and that self-compassion. And so how can that perspective, make the holiday season feel less stressful and more joyful? I know you said it’s a lot about thinking about what you want those memories to be.

What else would you add there?

Lisa: Talk to the people that [00:25:00] you love and ask them what’s important to them about the holidays. You might be surprised. So even your three or 4-year-old child is capable of communicating what they want. So before you go into debt, before you spend all the money, have open honest conversations now with people in your life about what they value and what’s important to them.

People have different money personalities, people have different love languages. And again, if all we’re doing is trying to manage other people’s expectations. Almost always someone is going to be let down in that conversation. So just come back around to what’s important and what’s valued versus expectation.

Because if you spend the Red Rider BB Gun, do you remember that movie? Okay. All he wanted was the Red Rider BB Gun. That’s all he wanted, and the end of the movie ended very differently. Then it being the red Rider BB Gun. That made him happy and he was obsessed about it, but when it came down to [00:26:00] it, it was spending time with his mom and his dad and his brother.

And I know he wouldn’t take that memory back. So we get obsessed about these things, but it’s really the people that we love at the end of the day that matter the most. So just remember that.

Barb: it’s so important and to keep that, it’s almost like we, we need a mantra for ourselves when we do get caught up in the holiday, chaos if you will. I’m not a spender, so I don’t even like the stores and all the shopping. In fact, we don’t do a lot of gifts. My husband and I, we don’t even buy gifts for anniversaries or birthdays or anything because that’s not important to us.

What’s important to us is just spending time together. Maybe we go to a nice dinner or we, spend time going to dinner in a movie or something low key. That’s all we need, but I can see where people get caught up in a lot of the, when you’re, I just see them at the malls, they’re just piling away the gifts and the bags and all of that.

But it’s almost like you need a mantra that’s I don’t know what the mantra would be. [00:27:00] Lisa, do you have one that would be kind of like, What’s important to me right now would be spending time with my family and not, something that’s purchased in a box or something like 

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

I don’t know about a mantra. I think that we could give that to our listeners for homework to really think about what would be the thing that would help you stay out of the chaos and be intentional because, I myself, I don’t love going to the mall and those kinds of things, but I know my husband is a spender because that’s his love language and that’s how he learned love.

So I wouldn’t wanna make him wrong for wanting to spend money, but what I can do to the best of my ability is communicate to him that’s not what matters to me, and that’s not my love language. And he can go and buy me the nice thing, but at the end of the day, what I care about is waking up and having breakfast together Christmas morning.

And my boys coming out of, they have bedhead and they’re rolling out, and the stalking sometimes is even more exciting because they went to bed and it wasn’t staffed or full, and now it is. And just some of those magical pieces. So I think the [00:28:00] ultimate mantra could be, will this matter when I’m dead?

And if the answer’s no, don’t buy into it. Remember that 85% of the world’s wealth is spent by women. And marketers know this, and they are targeting us now for the holidays. And you have to realize that in the consumer culture, you’re being targeted and it’s unconsciously back there.

So the other check, the reality check would be, is this what I want or is this what I think I should want? And be aware and conscious of that.

Barb: Or is this what a marketer’s telling me I should want,

Lisa: That’s right. Why are commercials, the commercials are so emotional for that reason. You see someone in a, they get a new car and you see their reaction and they’re so happy for those 30 seconds. But what you don’t see on the other end of it, which is what I see in my office, is the couple fighting about the new car because they [00:29:00] can’t afford

Maggie: It blows my mind. I’m like, if you are sharing a budget and bought one much less two cars without consulting each other, I’m like, are you serious right now? I would be pissed unless you paid that full price outta your own little piggy bank. Like, don’t add that extra bill. We didn’t talk about that.

That’s right. It’s madness. So shut it down. Center and focus in your nervous system. We do that work in my world too. Breath work and meditation and calm it down and just. Stay totally focused on what’s most important to you and you’ll have a happy holiday season ’cause you choose to have a happy holiday season.

Now I’ve gotta know, what do you like to make for your holiday breakfast?

Lisa: I don’t cook.

Maggie: Okay, so whatever someone’s making is

Lisa: What? Well, yeah, so Backstory is my husband loves food. He’s the live to eat kind of person. And I just eat because I have to. And so it doesn’t matter to me. And he loves being in the kitchen and he loves making those experiences happen.

So whatever Jimmy’s gonna cook, I’ll eat. 

Barb: [00:30:00] So for listeners who are feeling overwhelmed, just thinking about the holiday costs right now, what’s the first small step they can take right now to feel in control.

Lisa: The holidays are such a special time. They really are. But they can also be really stressful. We all know that. That’s exactly why we’re here. So one thing that you can do right now is imagine how you want your holidays to be this year. Not operating from your past. Because if we go down that memory lane road, maybe we’re trying to heal and fix things over time, like those emotional conversations come up in the holidays.

So be kind to yourself. Slow down right now. Slow down. Take a deep breath and ask the important question of what’s most important to me? How do I want to feel about the holiday season? Actually feel, do I want to feel calm and peaceful and protect that energy? Because we make spending decisions based on emotions.

So tap into the [00:31:00] emotions that you want, not the emotions that you don’t want. Focus on creating that today and moving forward into the holidays.

Maggie: I think this has been a great conversation and makes me think like I’m kind of excited to like take it slow and hang the lights, and bake the cookies and really, sometimes it’s so much rushing to like this specific day where it’s just like each little step along the way is like a fun little time as well.

So, I’m so glad you gotta come and share your expertise, especially in this area. And there is a question we like to ask all of our guests. And so now it’s your turn. What is your definition of financial freedom?

Lisa: My definition of financial freedom is waking up in a home that I love with people, that I love doing things that I love. If I can do that every single day for the rest of my life, then it’ll be a job well done.

Maggie: That’s a new one for us. We haven’t heard one like that before.

So, yeah, thank you so much, Lisa, for coming on and sharing your expertise. We’re [00:32:00] definitely gonna have links to, all your socials email and that money personality as well in the show notes so people can dive more in there. And yeah, we appreciate everyone listening and so please give us a follow, give us a share, and until next time, be financially fearless. 

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